The New Tone Thread

[rayc]

or

Are links to the latest and probably best blend of 5s and opens.
I have the backing, the lyrics and even a melody but no voice.

 

[Greg_L]

Ray you're getting there buddy. That does sound better. You got some depth in those chords now. You're walking that line between jangly country chords and knuckleheaded powerchords. You can do almost anything in the rock realm with those kinds of barre chords.

There's still some wavering, almost chorus-like effect going on. Are you still using those weird felt fanned picks?

 

[rayc]

Thanks Greg.
I swapped to an old fashioned simple pick a few days back.
Same guitar for most tracks - just one different guitar when I recorded the amp dimed and didn't want that pain again - I'll test tomorrow with that one muted.
No FX anywhere on guitars except a little compression but I'll also run a test with nothing on anything.

 

[Greg_L]

There's not much use for compression on driven guitars IMO. It doesn't do much beyond mashing it all together, and a driven guitar track is mashed already. There's no upside. Look at the waveform for overdriven guitars - flat as a board. Very little dynamic range. Clean guitars, sure. Compress em some. But overdriven guitars are already compressed. The tubes do it for you. And when you compress those in the DAW, the tracks just go dead.

 

[Lt. Bob]

There's not much use for compression on driven guitars IMO. It doesn't do much beyond mashing it all together, and a driven guitar track is mashed already. There's no upside. Look at the waveform for overdriven guitars - flat as a board. Very little dynamic range. Clean guitars, sure. Compress em some. But overdriven guitars are already compressed. The tubes do it for you. And when you compress those in the DAW, the tracks just go dead.

^^^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[antichef]

Totally true. And compressor pedals are pretty much useless for overdriven guitar in my experience

 

[Greg_L]

Okay here's yet another vocal-less demo track from my bands' influences album thing. I did this one yesterday afternoon. I'm not the singer in the band but I'll probably sing this one along with Chinese Rocks for the album. This selection was picked by the bass player, but it applies to me too.

Sex Pistols - No Feelings
This one's cool to me because it's mostly one centered guitar track with some wide layering popping up here and there for some bigness in certain parts. I did it mostly off memory so Bubba can chime in and tell me all the shit that's wrong with it.

The guitars...
Hallmark 60 Custom
Marshall JMP 2204
Presence - 6
Bass - 7
Mid - 4
Treb - 7
Preamp vol - 5
Master vol - 8
Leads with Tube Screamer boost
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion G12-65
SM57 on axis, on grill, halfway to edge
No EQ, a little reverb added in DAW

No Feeeeeeeeeeelings

Lemme know whatcha think.

 

[antichef]

sounds fantastic -- when are you all playing next?

 

[kindafishy]

Greg, that sounds like it was really well recorded. I know this is a guitar tone thread, but let's talk about all tones here. The drums sound absolutely fantastic. Clear cymbals, great body and snap to the snare, lots of punch and thump to the kick. The bass guitar, for me, always sort of rides a line between being percussive and melodic. This sounds like you've got the melodic support perfect and it fills the bottom end out really well, but I would like it to hit me in the chest more with a more punchy/attacky kind of thing. The guitars sound really clear. I am shy about saying so because you know precisely what to go for in terms of tone, but I can't help but feel like maybe just the tiniest bit of the upper mids could be attenuated as I am getting a slight sense of ear fatigue up there.

Overall, the playing is great and the recording sounds awesome. You did this yesterday afternoon? I would work on this for days and days and not come close to how clean, punchy, clear, open, dynamic and cohesive this sounds. Sounds like a band. Sounds like a band I want to see.

 

[minerman]

Sounds great as usual Greg, but I do gotta agree with KFishy about the upper mids, seems they're a tad harsh on my end too, to me it sounds like the mix overall, but in particular the oh's/cymbals seem to have the most of it...

No nits on the guitar tone dude, other than that's a lot more reverb than I can ever remember you using, I like it though, a lot...

 

[minerman]

or

Are links to the latest and probably best blend of 5s and opens.
I have the backing, the lyrics and even a melody but no voice.

Sounds a lot better Ray, the guitar tones are really smooth now, to me, they need just a tiny bit of grit/od, but you gotta remember, I'm a gain-head from the 80's...Great improvements man, you can actually go back to the first clip & hear it from one clip to the next...

 

[Greg_L]

sounds fantastic -- when are you all playing next?

Thanks dude. Aug 27 @ BFE. I might be doing double-duty as both of my bands are booked, but there's a chance I might quit the guitar band before then. Or at least take them off the bill. My drumming band will definitely be playing.

Greg, that sounds like it was really well recorded. I know this is a guitar tone thread, but let's talk about all tones here. The drums sound absolutely fantastic. Clear cymbals, great body and snap to the snare, lots of punch and thump to the kick. The bass guitar, for me, always sort of rides a line between being percussive and melodic. This sounds like you've got the melodic support perfect and it fills the bottom end out really well, but I would like it to hit me in the chest more with a more punchy/attacky kind of thing. The guitars sound really clear. I am shy about saying so because you know precisely what to go for in terms of tone, but I can't help but feel like maybe just the tiniest bit of the upper mids could be attenuated as I am getting a slight sense of ear fatigue up there.

Overall, the playing is great and the recording sounds awesome. You did this yesterday afternoon? I would work on this for days and days and not come close to how clean, punchy, clear, open, dynamic and cohesive this sounds. Sounds like a band. Sounds like a band I want to see.

Sounds great as usual Greg, but I do gotta agree with KFishy about the upper mids, seems they're a tad harsh on my end too, to me it sounds like the mix overall, but in particular the oh's/cymbals seem to have the most of it...

No nits on the guitar tone dude, other than that's a lot more reverb than I can ever remember you using, I like it though, a lot...

Thanks guy. I'm not having any problem with the upper mids, and some/most of this will be re-tracked by the other guys anyway, so I'm not worried about it. The drums are what's definitely staying. The rest is mostly just for my own amusement, and it does amuse me.

I really like the reverby guitars on this one. I might start doing that more often.

I other news, my EQ pedal that I fried a few weeks back came back from repair today, and all is well. It can now go back on the board to just sit there unused like it used to be.

 

[rayc]

WOW. Greg, given that the original is supposed to have heaps of guitar tracks to get that big sound you've done it beautifully & economically/efficiently.
Minerman,
thanks another mix today to sort out the"chorus" is likely.
Greg & Lt. Bob,
I used a tiny bit of compression on the guitar buss to "glue" them together. Only as it seemed to help a little. I noticed Reaper has a preset for distorted guitar - I thought that was odd - didn't use it but opted for a master buss glue as mentioned. I'll remove it today.

 

[rayc]

Yeah, I know I've driving you all to drink.
I am, however, trying to get a good tone. I'm just slow and deaf.
Here's the latest mix:

It's just guitars for the 1st bit & then the rhythm section comes in for context.
Two guitars either side - 4 in total.
1 is my blunt power chording & the 2nd is down stroke open strings - each hard panned in order to "blend" them.
All are the same guitar, (Bruno Royal Artist) to avoid any intonation clash.
NO FX, (no EQ, no Comp etc etc.), on the guitars, the guitar buss or the master buss.
A little reverb & EC on the drums and a little compression on the rhythm section buss.

 

[Greg_L]

Yeah, I know I've driving you all to drink.
I am, however, trying to get a good tone. I'm just slow and deaf.
Here's the latest mix:

It's just guitars for the 1st bit & then the rhythm section comes in for context.
Two guitars either side - 4 in total.
1 is my blunt power chording & the 2nd is down stroke open strings - each hard panned in order to "blend" them.
All are the same guitar, (Bruno Royal Artist) to avoid any intonation clash.
NO FX, (no EQ, no Comp etc etc.), on the guitars, the guitar buss or the master buss.
A little reverb & EC on the drums and a little compression on the rhythm section buss.

This one's kind of blurred together. The guitars, I mean. I think your last clip was better.

I think it's your blending of multiple tracks. It's just kind of mushy. But I can hear what you're trying to do. The more complete chording is there. It's just kind of getting lost in muck. Maybe it's the blending of tracks, the amp/cab/mic settings, and how you're playing is all conspiring against you. If you wanna keep testing it out, I'd suggest stripping it back to bare basics. Try just two rhythim tracks played however you wanna play them, but don't stack, compress, or blend anything.

 

[minerman]

Ray: I know what you're trying to do man, that's something I personally struggle with, is layering guitar tracks...Greg's right, strip it back to 2 guitars until you can get it really tight, then go from there dude...It's not bad, but I know you can get this dude, just keep after it...

 

[minerman]

Still trying to get a decent tone at low volume over here (so I don't annoy my sick neighbor)...I know what I need to do (turn the amp up & let it breathe), just can't go there, so I'll have to make due with low volume amp tracks for now...

Been playing with the red channel on the EVH LBX, trying to tame the high end a tad...

SG > EVH LBX > '65 > i5

Low-power mode
Red channel

Resonance:...............3
Gain:.............................2
Bass:............................8
Middle:.........................8
Treble:.........................6
Volume:.......................1.5
Presence:...................5

Red EVH 65 i5

The mic placement could be a little better on this clip, as usual, along with the amp settings, but I think this clip is ok. Not great, but ok/usable...

I've found just a little of the resonance knob makes quite a difference with this amp, but like the other amps I've had, too much & it can get "woofy" sounding...Just a little goes a long way, & fills the low end quite nicely IMO...

Lemme know what you guys think...

 

[rayc]

For low vol that sounds pretty good MM.
When are you going to do another video?

 

[jimistone]

Okay here's yet another vocal-less demo track from my bands' influences album thing. I did this one yesterday afternoon. I'm not the singer in the band but I'll probably sing this one along with Chinese Rocks for the album. This selection was picked by the bass player, but it applies to me too.

Sex Pistols - No Feelings
This one's cool to me because it's mostly one centered guitar track with some wide layering popping up here and there for some bigness in certain parts. I did it mostly off memory so Bubba can chime in and tell me all the shit that's wrong with it.

The guitars...
Hallmark 60 Custom
Marshall JMP 2204
Presence - 6
Bass - 7
Mid - 4
Treb - 7
Preamp vol - 5
Master vol - 8
Leads with Tube Screamer boost
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion G12-65
SM57 on axis, on grill, halfway to edge
No EQ, a little reverb added in DAW

No Feeeeeeeeeeelings

Lemme know whatcha think.

Man, that really rocks greg!

 

[jimistone]

Ray...I love the guitar tone you're getting. The semi clean but breaking up a bit sound is hard to nail but you've nailed it IMO.