The New Tone Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Telegram Sam
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Greg_L said:
Yeah and they also used milder amps and boost pedals....and they weren't reamping with mega-hot wav files. I bet if JDOD came over and plugged straight in to the amp it'd be a lot better.
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Yep, I think you might've found out a reason he was struggling with his tones for a while dude. I mean he's sounding 1,000% better on each clip, but it makes me wonder if that p'up was the culprit, or at least a big part...

When I bought my LP, I had a Jackson on the "list" that had the same p'up in it, but chose the Lester instead. I started with like 4-5 guitars in the same price range, & it came down to those 2...I'm not saying it sucks or anything, lots of people use & love that p'up, but I may have had trouble dialing in a sound with it, & may have been disappointed with that guitar....I'm glad now I picked the LP, because I have a hard enough time as it is....:laughings:
 
Well, I have my old TonePort with me this week and we'll see if it clips through that or if it's specific to the focusrite. I'm not a massively heavy handed player either, I use really heavy picks, but I don't pick particularly hard. My ibanez, while not clipping, was getting pretty close when I plugged it into the focusrite.
 
JDOD said:
Yeah, sounds great through my amp and I like the character of the pickup. I will lower it slightly though as it shouldn't be clipping my AI
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Hey man, I didn't mean anything by my last post, matter of fact I was braggin' on ya...You've improved 1000% just in the last week or two...

Your AI doesn't have a pre-amp gain knob??? What are you using???

Every interface I've ever used had a gain knob on it, even the tiny little Line 6 Guitar Port I started out with:



And the Tascam US122:


I use a Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 now:

I lucked out on the NI interface, I never thought I'd be using real amps, & re-amping never even crossed my mind. But I'm glad I got this thing just because of the extra hardware outputs on the back. I use 1/2 for my monitors, & output 4 goes into my re-amp box...
 
Greg is always talking about fixing your sound at the source. Well, if someone is recording DI and then reamping, your source is pretty much the pickup.
I've installed a shitload of pickups over the years and the JB is a great pickup. I've had many install requests, but can't remember too many un-installs.

However 16kohm is real hot. Going straight into the front end of a JCM 800 can be a glorious thing, and you're pretty much in the downtown neighborhood of that 80s rock tone.
For recording direct though, I'd do something to dial it back a bit, which is why I suggested just dropping the height some.
:D
 
minerman said:
Yep, I think you might've found out a reason he was struggling with his tones for a while dude. I mean he's sounding 1,000% better on each clip, but it makes me wonder if that p'up was the culprit, or at least a big part...

When I bought my LP, I had a Jackson on the "list" that had the same p'up in it, but chose the Lester instead. I started with like 4-5 guitars in the same price range, & it came down to those 2...I'm not saying it sucks or anything, lots of people use & love that p'up, but I may have had trouble dialing in a sound with it, & may have been disappointed with that guitar....I'm glad now I picked the LP, because I have a hard enough time as it is....:laughings:
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That pickup is only a problem for DI though. Going straight into an amp it's just pushing the front end harder. That's what it's designed to do. There's almost no limit when going into an amp. The amp doesn't care. Drive the shit out of it and bask in the glory of rock and roll guitar tone. An interface preamp with a finite amount of headroom will definitely care though.
 
Now for my own tones...I mentioned a while back about using a Y-cable into my Plexis. I did a little A/B just now comparing jumping the channels, which is standard practice, to the Y-cable method. The difference is clear...pun intended. :drunk:

Gibson Les Paul Traditional Glorious Goldtop
Marshall Plexi 1959 Super Lead
Presence - 5
Bass - 6
Mid - 4
Treb - 8
Vol 1 - 5
Vol 2 - 5
Marshall 1960B 4x12 - Vintage 30
Shure SM57 on axis, 2" off grill, just outside dustcap
No EQ or FX in DAW
Nothing changed from clip-to-clip besides the cable input method.

Plexi channels jumped
Plexi Y-cable

See what you think.
 
JDOD said:
Cheers, mate. I was being a fucking pleb.

Here's the mix with your clip. It certainly adds the meat I'm after but there is a bit of flub in there too. Your amping is panned 50% right. My rhythm track is still 50% left where it was before.

View attachment 97281
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man, this rocks!
I the the guitars sound pretty good. Whoever is on drums is playing the shit out of them.
I like this type of rock groove
 
Greg_L said:
Now for my own tones...I mentioned a while back about using a Y-cable into my Plexis. I did a little A/B just now comparing jumping the channels, which is standard practice, to the Y-cable method. The difference is clear...pun intended. :drunk:

Gibson Les Paul Traditional Glorious Goldtop
Marshall Plexi 1959 Super Lead
Presence - 5
Bass - 6
Mid - 4
Treb - 8
Vol 1 - 5
Vol 2 - 5
Marshall 1960B 4x12 - Vintage 30
Shure SM57 on axis, 2" off grill, just outside dustcap
No EQ or FX in DAW
Nothing changed from clip-to-clip besides the cable input method.

Plexi channels jumped
Plexi Y-cable

See what you think.
Click to expand...

In thre Y cable Clip the tone has more definition and edge (in a good way) to my ears. I will say that both clips sound really good IMO.
 
Both clips are good Greg, seems the Y-cable clip has just a hair more everything to me, in a good way. Hard to pick dude, they're both good...
 
Miner - No worries, I wasn't pissed off with you or anything. My Focusrite AI does have a gain knob but it was turned right down to zero for that clip I sent you were it was clipping!

RFR - I'm considering moving it back a touch this week, however, I always record through a miked amp so I'm not sure there's much point.

Jimi - Cheers, mate. That's my EZ Drummer programming though - no drummer there.

Greg - I prefer the jumped channels - only listened to them through once (its 8AM and I need to pour a coffee) - but the jumped clip seems to be a little tighter and less susceptible to mush, also the highs seem more biting in the Y cable clip.
 
Thanks guys. I prefer the Y-cable myself. It's clarity is much better to me...in the room and recorded.
 
Greg_L said:
Thanks guys. I prefer the Y-cable myself. It's clarity is much better to me...in the room and recorded.
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To be fair, mate. They're both very good. I always seem to find the ones that you prefer to have slightly biting highs. Could just mean that your ears have had marginally more wear and tear in this department than mine, or maybe I just prefer things a bit creamier... although I'm starting to get surfers ear, particularly on my right side - dunno what effect that has.
 
I've always preferred brighter tones. I like "meat" in the tone, but I want that top end clarity too. Not harsh, not painful, not fizzy, but clear. It's a fine line to walk. Dark tone is easy. Searing bright is easy. Getting it all balanced is a bit more tricky and that's what I try for. My goal is always an appropriate tone for whatever I'm doing and using as little EQ as possible - preferably none. And from years and years of tracking I'm almost 100% positive that Y-cable tone would kick ass in a Greg song/mix.

When I play live, one of my favorite little personal joys is tricking people. They hear me soundcheck by myself or goof around before we start and people always think my tone is too clean. People I know are always telling me "I can't believe how clean your sound is". Mind you, I'm not really clean at all. I'm balls deep into thick crunch territory, but I'm not buried under mushy dirt tone like most people are. Compared to most rock guitarists in my scene, my tone is indeed pretty clean. Then we play as a band and I cut, I punch through a loud live mix, you can hear everything I do - good and bad! I'm not too loud. I sit in the mix in my own space. You can still clearly hear the bass, drums, vocals, etc. What you can't hear is the other guy because he's buried under his own thick mushy too-much-gain sound. Live, I fill in the midrange with a thick roar of Marshall goodness with clarity. Those same people that say I'm "too clean" come back afterwards to tell me how fucking bad ass it sounds. It's fun and flattering, but it's not an accident. It's thought out, planned, and deliberate.
 
I know what you mean actually, I saw a band recently and noticed the guy had EMGs (or similar). I turned to my mate and said I bet he's got too much distortion and you can't hear what he's doing. Even though he was really loud - he just sounded like a big dark cloud over everything!

I've started using a lot less gain since I've been posting on the Tone Thread.... I'm also gonna make an appointment with the quack to get my ears looked at.
 
JDOD said:
I know what you mean actually, I saw a band recently and noticed the guy had EMGs (or similar). I turned to my mate and said I bet he's got too much distortion and you can't hear what he's doing. Even though he was really loud - he just sounded like a big dark cloud over everything!
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Yup, it's like white noise. I see but can't hear those guys all the time. Usually I'm grateful that they have no idea how to play live because they're not doing anything I'd want to hear anyway. When I see Schecters or ESPs and pointy guitars with EMGs I know by default that they don't make any music I wanna hear, so it's fine. Too many people use their bedroom tone for going out live. In momma's basement at low volume, sure, have some fun, jack the gain, dime the bass, drop effects all over it, knock yourself out. But that usually doesn't work when you're live and loud.

I've started using a lot less gain since I've been posting on the Tone Thread.... I'm also gonna make an appointment with the quack to get my ears looked at.
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I'm pretty lucky. My ears still work real good. I protect them though. I never drum without ear protection. I might be sitting right next to big ol amps, but I'm not cranking them day and night. They sit dormant most of the time. Most of my goof off playing is low volume stuff with the JVM.
 
I learned a long time ago, from listening to other guitar players and experimenting on my own, that a little crunch goes a long way. Most guitar players use way too much pregain type distortion IMO. They try to use it as a substitute for what high volume yields. But, too much pre gain canned distortion gives a gazzoo sound that lacks punch and power, lacks clarity and definition, and is loud and buried in the mix at the same time.

When I was plying live in clubs I used to have guitarists ask me a lot "Man, how are you getting that killer tone?"
answer was always the same. A lot of gain and not a lot of pre gain.
I never used much in terms of effects. A tube screamer to push the tube amp and a crybaby was about it.
 
jimistone said:
loud and buried in the mix at the same time.
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That's a huge problem with a lot of hard rock/metal players around here. Yeah, they're loud enough, but you can't tell what the fuck they're doing. It really is white noise. It's just a mushy hiss of sound. No clarity, no punch, no definition, no nothing. I'll go stand right in front to see if it's them on stage sounding bad, or if it's the sound guy mixing bad. As much as I hate soundguys, most of the time the guitar player is at fault for having shit tone.


In other news...I don't know what to make of this...I got an email from Guitar Center with a digital coupon for my "Guitar Center Bucks". Apparently I've qualified for some kickback reward system. I had no idea I was even enrolled.

Get this, it's $500! Five. Hundred. Dollars. WTF! I got a free half-grand to spend on whatever I want? What is this sorcery? This must be a leftover April Fools joke or something. There's gotta be a catch, right?
 
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