The New Tone Thread

[JDOD]

Blackstar is very secretive about their "design"

I don't understand it. Maybe they don't want people fucking around in there? I don't know. It's not like they invented tube amps. Fenders and Marshalls have been reverse engineered down to the last resistor. Everyone knows everything about those things. They're simple and open and still have yet to be beaten IMO.

Anyway, I'm trying to separate what I hear from what I think is happening. A lot of times I try to understand why something sounds the way it does instead of just accepting it. So I'm trying to figure out why maybe I like certain clips of yours better than the others, and I don't have an answer besides I just do. Usually less gain always sounds better to me, but it would appear that jacking the gain up on yours makes it sound better.

I definitely think you're on the right track with the bass and mids rolled back a little. Get that gain vs vol thing sorted and you're almost home. None of them sound bad, but those last two sound better than the first four to me.

Yeah, its generally known that there's something a bit SS/Rec going on in the preamp stage but they aren't open about what it is. I would be a fuck of a lot easier to dial it in if you knew what things were supposed to do!

The above whinge notwithstanding - I think this evenings clips are my best ones in ages - getting close to the recording tone I want.

 

[Greg_L]

Yeah, its generally known that there's something a bit SS/Rec going on in the preamp stage but they aren't open about what it is. I would be a fuck of a lot easier to dial it in if you knew what things were supposed to do!

The above whinge notwithstanding - I think this evenings clips are my best ones in ages - getting close to the recording tone I want.

I think that they think their "ISF control" is some black magic voodoo shit that everyone will steal if they release what it is. Or maybe they're hiding some diode clipping SS circuitry that they don't want to have realized. I don't know. Anyone could take one apart and poke around.

I don't know what they're doing, but I do know to me, to my own ears, there's something off about the Blackstar sound and it doesn't jive with me for my sound. And apparently I'm not alone. I play in a very big city and see lots and lots of live bands. For as affordable as they are, no one uses Blackstar amps. No one. In the past ten years I can't remember one guy using one Blackstar live. I don't really get it because tastes vary so much. I'd expect to see a handful of them. But I don't. They're so rare I actually look for them. I can throw a rock and hit a Marshall or a Vox or Orange or Mesa...and even boutique stuff. I see lots of boutique oddballs that sound great. But no Blackstars.

 

[minerman]

I think that they think their "ISF control" is some black magic voodoo shit that everyone will steal if they release what it is. Or maybe they're hiding some diode clipping SS circuitry that they don't want to have realized. I don't know. Anyone could take one apart and poke around.

You may be right about the ISF control Greg, but I have read about lots of people trying to get info/schematics with no luck at all....

I had the HT-5 combo for a few months, but I didn't keep it very long. I traded it off to get a speaker cab for the Tweaker I had....And myself, I also thought the sound of the HT-5 was very bland & "generic" sounding...

I will say for a 5w amp, it was pretty damn loud, especially through a bigger cab...

 

[Greg_L]

You may be right about the ISF control Greg, but I have read about lots of people trying to get info/schematics with no luck at all....

I had the HT-5 combo for a few months, but I didn't keep it very long. I traded it off to get a speaker cab for the Tweaker I had....And myself, I also thought the sound of the HT-5 was very bland & "generic" sounding...

I will say for a 5w amp, it was pretty damn loud, especially through a bigger cab...

That's what it is to me. Bland. Generic. The one character Blackstar has is a character I don't want - darkness. The name fits. But I do think that type of tone is probably just right for a gloomy grunge rocker like JDOD, so I'm not trying to put down his amp. It's probably perfect for him.

 

[minerman]

That's what it is to me. Bland. Generic. The one character Blackstar has is a character I don't want - darkness. The name fits. But I do think that type of tone is probably just right for a gloomy grunge rocker like JDOD, so I'm not trying to put down his amp. It's probably perfect for him.

Exactly dude, different strokes for different folks. I remember asking you about using an eq in the loop of my HT-5 to brighten it up....Man, that seems like a long time ago...lol...I was after the Marshall thing, which I'm sure with a little help, any of the BS amps could do, but for me, I would have to buy a bunch of other gear (speakers/cab, eq, etc), so I just moved on...

 

[Greg_L]

Exactly dude, different strokes for different folks. I remember asking you about using an eq in the loop of my HT-5 to brighten it up....Man, that seems like a long time ago...lol...I was after the Marshall thing, which I'm sure with a little help, any of the BS amps could do, but for me, I would have to buy a bunch of other gear (speakers/cab, eq, etc), so I just moved on...

Marshalls and Blackstars are like opposite ends of the spectrum. I had that little Diamond amp for a little while, and man, that thing was so thick and gainy. I liked it for what it was, but it proved to be useless for me. I didn't make me happy. I tried to take shortcuts and it didn't work. Again, I'll mention that Lt Bob told me all along "Stop fucking around and just get the big ol Marshalls you want". He was right, of course. I can just flip on my Plexis or JCM 800 and be in total glory.

 

[minerman]

Marshalls and Blackstars are like opposite ends of the spectrum. I had that little Diamond amp for a little while, and man, that thing was so thick and gainy. I liked it for what it was, but it proved to be useless for me. I didn't make me happy. I tried to take shortcuts and it didn't work. Again, I'll mention that Lt Bob told me all along "Stop fucking around and just get the big ol Marshalls you want". He was right, of course. I can just flip on my Plexis or JCM 800 and be in total glory.

Yeah dude, I get it now. Back then, I was trying to go low-to-no volume to get the Marshall thing, & while i did have some pretty cool results, it just ain't the same....at all....

I'm down to just my DSL100H now, but, it still does the Marshall thing good enough for what I need....It can't do the tone(s) the Ceriatone could, but, it's pretty close...

BTW, has your buddy ever wound that thing up & found out what it's capable of yet??? Holy fuck, I don't think he realizes what a good amp he's got there man...lol...

 

[Greg_L]

Yeah dude, I get it now. Back then, I was trying to go low-to-no volume to get the Marshall thing, & while i did have some pretty cool results, it just ain't the same....at all....

I'm down to just my DSL100H now, but, it still does the Marshall thing good enough for what I need....It can't do the tone(s) the Ceriatone could, but, it's pretty close...

BTW, has your buddy ever wound that thing up & found out what it's capable of yet??? Holy fuck, I don't think he realizes what a good amp he's got there man...lol...

I think your DSL will do those tones. I really do. You just gotta find that setting. You know those 80s tones you like were done with help from pedals. Maybe incorporate them more into your sound. DSLs are great amps for hard rock. That is one amp I see a lot of, and they always sound good to me. Your clips always sound like the proper Marshall hard rock sound. You play that way too, so it's there.

No, my guy still has not fired up your Chupa to my knowledge. We haven't practiced in about a month though with the holidays and all. I don't think he plays much, if any, when we're not active as a band. He takes it to gigs. I know that much. It sits there in an eye candy/backup role, but he hasn't used it yet. I think he fears the change. I really do. We have a gig this weekend and then it's back to serious practice so I'm gonna hound him about it. I want him to use it. I think he wants to use it. He just doesn't yet. He's stuck in his rut.

 

[JDOD]

It's slightly annoying really, cos it sounds fucking great in the room. Just can't record what I'm hearing which is fucking irritating.

I'm glad I didn't go for that Bognor with a million buttons on it, I'd never have dialed that in.

I'm actually seeing a fair few blackstar amps out and about, maybe they're just more affordable over here. The amps that really seem to be eating into the Marshall / Mesa market share though are Victory. They're getting really popular

 

[Greg_L]

It's slightly annoying really, cos it sounds fucking great in the room. Just can't record what I'm hearing which is fucking irritating.

I'm glad I didn't go for that Bognor with a million buttons on it, I'd never have dialed that in.

I'm actually seeing a fair few blackstar amps out and about, maybe they're just more affordable over here. The amps that really seem to be eating into the Marshall / Mesa market share though are Victory. They're getting really popular

Haha, I've definitely not seen any of those over here. But we're also not a bunch of Rob Chapman disciples.

 

[minerman]

I think your DSL will do those tones. I really do. You just gotta find that setting. You know those 80s tones you like were done with help from pedals. Maybe incorporate them more into your sound. DSLs are great amps for hard rock. That is one amp I see a lot of, and they always sound good to me. Your clips always sound like the proper Marshall hard rock sound. You play that way too, so it's there.

Well, the DSL will get pretty close, as a lot of my clips with both those amps sounded very similar, but, the Chupa just had this certain "thing" to it the DSL just doesn't have....But, I will say I still like my DSL, a lot. It's a big, loud ass Marshall, that IMHO, sounds better as it gets louder....

The only od pedal I have now is the SD-1, I sold the Bogner pedal a few months ago, as I was in a tight spot, & honestly, I never really used it all that much....The SD-1 into the green crunch channel on the DSL can do those tones all day long anyway, so I'm good....

No, my guy still has not fired up your Chupa to my knowledge. We haven't practiced in about a month though with the holidays and all. I don't think he plays much, if any, when we're not active as a band. He takes it to gigs. I know that much. It sits there in an eye candy/backup role, but he hasn't used it yet. I think he fears the change. I really do. We have a gig this weekend and then it's back to serious practice so I'm gonna hound him about it. I want him to use it. I think he wants to use it. He just doesn't yet. He's stuck in his rut.

That's cool man....If he ever used that amp I know he'd change his mind because it's a tone machine dude. I loved it. The only thing was the volume differences, but, just a quick turn of the volume knob solves that....I still can't get over the fact he hasn't used it...lol...

 

[Greg_L]

I think that volume thing really has him spooked. He's not a channel switcher so I don't know why he'd even care. He does want a lead volume boost, but that can be done with a pedal in the loop, as I've told him a thousand times. The other guy uses a JVM - exactly like mine - and it confuses him every time. I tell him what to do and then he doesn't do it. It's like they don't listen to me. What do I know? I'm just a drummer.

 

[JDOD]

Haha, I've definitely not seen any of those over here. But we're also not a bunch of Rob Chapman disciples.

Haha, they're fucking good amps and say what you like about Chapman, he's got a good tone.

Don't know what the price difference is between the US and UK on Victory amps.

Mesas are mega expensive over here.

 

[JDOD]

Aside from all the whinging over tone, I'm just pleased that I'm getting close to something that I want to use.

 

[minerman]

I hear ya Greg...Man, you don't know what I'd give to be able to play out again, but it ain't gonna happen around here. I tried that back in the summer, & there's just nobody around here interested enough to take it half-assed seriously....

I'm outta here again for a few days, but I'll be back probable around the weekend...

Have a good one guys!!!!

 

[Greg_L]

Haha, they're fucking good amps and say what you like about Chapman, he's got a good tone.

He's a good player. He'd sound good through anything.

Don't know what the price difference is between the US and UK on Victory amps.

Mesas are mega expensive over here.

They're mega expensive here too.

---------- Update ----------

Aside from all the whinging over tone, I'm just pleased that I'm getting close to something that I want to use.

I think you're real close. The sound you're getting "fits" the music you're making. That's about the best you can do IMO.

 

[ShanPeyton]

I like all those tones JDOD. For the riff i would say the B10 M10 T2 G12V12.mp3 works best. I am sure it'll sit pretty nice in a song. Nice to see all your Blackstar stuff in here man.

On a personal level i really like B10 M10 T2.mp3. If it were me and my noise I make I would try to find a way to fatten that tone up. I really like that one as a tone itself, but for this riff and usage not so much.

 

[minerman]

Yeah JDOD, you gotta remember the guitar sound(s) you're recording are only part of the whole thing....They've gotta "fit" with the song you're putting them in, & I personally think your tones are fine dude...I think you're obsessing too much like I do, sometimes you just gotta go with what you have & move on dude....It's really easy to s\get stuck in a rut, trust me, I know....hahaha

 

[JDOD]

Yeah, I am obsessing a bit, I just want to get what's in my head then hand it over to the drummer while I work on the lead and the vocals.

Cheers for the help/advice though guys, been really useful.

Just curious, what does a Victory V30, V40 or Kraken cost over there? They're all 820 quid over here.

Good players are annoying in that respect, they make even shit gear sound good.

 

[Greg_L]

According to their site, they only have a few retail distributors. They're $1300-ish over here. No thanks.


Good players can make good gear sound bad too. Randy Rhoads.