The New Tone Thread

[minerman]

Lol, I'm only going to try out the 1987x for fun. I've never played on an amp like it, so I'm going to go in, crank it and bash out some AC/DC real fast before they come and tell me to turn it down.

Which would be in about 10 seconds or less if you've got it fully cranked dude...lol...Like I said, if my Ceriatone is anywhere close to the 1987x, you'll love it, but it's loud as fuck...The Ceriatone is "hurt your whole body" loud, & I'm sure the Marshall is the same, maybe even louder...

I'm not knocking the 2 channel JVM at all dude, but if it were me, I'd save up for the 4 channel, if I were going for a JVM, just sayin'....

On the ISO cab thing in your house, I'm sure you can find somewhere you can use that thing dude, a closet or spare room that you could do a little soundproofing work to, helping kill the noise...

 

[Greg_L]

The JVM4 doesn't have a 50w option though. I think his cab is only rated at 60 watts? Two G12H30s?

 

[jonny deep]

The power section doesn't ever really "cook" on the JVMs. There's an easy mod to remedy that though. It is a preamp focused amp. The 50w option is a good idea for your cab, but there are some things about the JVM2 that's different from the 4 series. For one, the clean and crunch channel is combined on the JVM2 like a DSL and has a shared EQ. And the JVM2's OD channel is actually the JVM4's OD2 which means it has a more modern voicing with the mids shifted a little lower. That bugs some people, but I like OD2 on my 4-series JVM, so I don't really see it as a problem.

You have a 2203, right Greg? How does the preamp and master volume work on there - you need to the master up high to get the power section saturation to get _that_ tone? I've looked at so many amps today, I'm getting confused (I'm pretty high on codeine for my back as well right now, so hope I'm making sense!).

 

[jonny deep]

The JVM4 doesn't have a 50w option though. I think his cab is only rated at 60 watts? Two G12H30s?

I currently have a greenback and a G12H30 in there, so only 50W. I have a V30 I could put in there, to make it 60W - I could always pick up a couple of Creambacks, so I could even get a 100W for it - I just don't know if it's practical for me to use.

There's a 50W JVM4? I haven't seen that. The price difference for the 410 second hand isn't that great here. JVM410Hs go for £650ish all day long on eBay here.

 

[Greg_L]

You have a 2203, right Greg? How does the preamp and master volume work on there - you need to the master up high to get the power section saturation to get _that_ tone? I've looked at so many amps today, I'm getting confused (I'm pretty high on codeine for my back as well right now, so hope I'm making sense!).

Mmmmm codeine....

The 2203 is a completely different animal than anything else we've been talking about. They're IMO even more rambunctious than 1987/1959s. They do go into power section meltdown quite easily, but it's a kind loud that cannot easily be described. The cool thing about a 2203/2204 is that it can work two ways - you can use it like a standard preamp gain then master volume amp, or you can crank the master volume and use the preamp vol as the control. The latter method resulting in a more Super Lead kind of sound. Either method requires savage loudness to really get the best out of it though. It's more usable than a 1987/1959 due to it's master volume, but it's part of the old school design that requires a lot of loudness to really hit it's sweet spot. You can play it on 1 or 2 on the master vol, but man you're leaving a lot of glorious sound untapped. The 2203 is so loud and punchy that even with it's master volume an attenuator could be a good idea.

 

[Greg_L]

I currently have a greenback and a G12H30 in there, so only 50W. I have a V30 I could put in there, to make it 60W - I could always pick up a couple of Creambacks, so I could even get a 100W for it - I just don't know if it's practical for me to use.

There's a 50W JVM4? I haven't seen that. The price difference for the 410 second hand isn't that great here. JVM410Hs go for £650ish all day long on eBay here.

No, there are no 50w JVM4 models. 100w only. You'll be safe with what you have and a 50w head. The JVM doesn't have to be cranked, so you're not actually going to be kicking out all 50 watts.

 

[jonny deep]

No, there are no 50w JVM4 models. 100w only. You'll be safe with what you have and a 50w head. The JVM doesn't have to be cranked, so you're not actually going to be kicking out all 50 watts.

Misread your post! A 50W JVM4 series would be a good compromise.

The shop website says they have a a 2203 reissue in stock as well (didn't see one when I was there), so I might see if I can try it too. They seem to have a 1959SLP too.

 

[miroslav]

I currently have a greenback and a G12H30 in there, so only 50W. I have a V30 I could put in there, to make it 60W - I could always pick up a couple of Creambacks, so I could even get a 100W for it - I just don't know if it's practical for me to use.

Not sure if they ship out to your world....but I recently picked up a WGS Invader, 8ohms/50W...it's their version of a Creamback, and it's smoother than their Green Beret, which is their version of the Greenback.

I have 2-3 Greenbacks and some G12H30 speakers, so I know how they sound....and I'm really liking this Invader a lot.
I had a cab with a WGS Reaper HP in it (which is like a G12H30 style) and replaced it with the Invader.

There are a few WGS speakers that I use, and I never considered the Invader...I always passed over it when I went to the WGS website to compare...and then I saw one on eBay, barely used as the guy wanted a different tone...so I figured I might as well try it out, and I'm glad I did. It fixes everything I don't like about Greenbacks (too much mid-high honk/edge), G12H30s (a bit dull on their own, but good with the Greenbacks), and even the Reaper, which has a lot of low end with a bit too much presence in the very high end.
The Invader is balanced low to high, so when you strum a chord, it's perfect...none of that low end boom or brittle high end without any decent mids.
I think that's what it is....the mids are perfect with the Invader...and you can then tone shape the amp any way you like....it breaks up in a creamy way, not too soon or too late, and it's made for higher power.

 

[Greg_L]

Misread your post! A 50W JVM4 series would be a good compromise.

The shop website says they have a a 2203 reissue in stock as well (didn't see one when I was there), so I might see if I can try it too. They seem to have a 1959SLP too.

Hahahahahaha! You are flirting with awesomeness. I see ringing ears in your baby's future!

Let me tell you about the JVM4 - it's too much amp. Seriously. I have one, and I like it, and I use about 10% of it. I don't know anyone that needs this much amp all at one time. The upper gain ranges are unusable unless you're playing the heaviest heavy metal there is. It's just insane. I'm about to continue my tour of the JVM into the OD channels. You'll hear it. It's just ridiculous how much gain this amp has.

 

[Greg_L]

Not sure if they ship out to your world....but I recently picked up a WGS Invader, 8ohms/50W...it's their version of a Creamback, and it's smoother than their Green Beret, which is their version of the Greenback.

I have 2-3 Greenbacks and some G12H30 speakers, so I know how they sound....and I'm really liking this Invader a lot.
I had a cab with a WGS Reaper HP in it (which is like a G12H30 style) and replaced it with the Invader.

There are a few WGS speakers that I use, and I never considered the Invader...I always passed over it when I went to the WGS website to compare...and then I saw one on eBay, barely used as the guy wanted a different tone...so I figured I might as well try it out, and I'm glad I did. It fixes everything I don't like about Greenbacks (too much mid-high honk/edge), G12H30s (a bit dull on their own, but good with the Greenbacks), and even the Reaper, which has a lot of low end with a bit too much presence in the very high end.
The Invader is balanced low to high, so when you strum a chord, it's perfect...none of that low end boom or brittle high end without any decent mids.
I think that's what it is....the mids are perfect with the Invader...and you can then tone shape the amp any way you like....it breaks up in a creamy way, not too soon or too late, and it's made for higher power.

Yeah do some clips with it. The WGS Invader has been on my radar for a while. The Liberator looks cool too.

 

[jonny deep]

Hahahahahaha! You are flirting with awesomeness. I see ringing ears in your baby's future!

Let me tell you about the JVM4 - it's too much amp. Seriously. I have one, and I like it, and I use about 10% of it. I don't know anyone that needs this much amp all at one time. The upper gain ranges are unusable unless you're playing the heaviest heavy metal there is. It's just insane. I'm about to continue my tour of the JVM into the OD channels. You'll hear it. It's just ridiculous how much gain this amp has.

If the 2203 is kind of usable at lower master volume and then crankable for recording, I'll consider it. I love the tone of my JCM1 - if I can get that in big amp sounding recordings, that would make me very happy. There's a 2203 reissue within easy driving distance, barely used for £800 right now. I'm almost high enough to go buy it right now!

On the JVM - I know from my JVM1 that more than half the amp is unusable for me. My little 1 watter's OD channel is based on OD1 Orange, I think, and anything over 0.5 on the gain is way too much.

 

[jonny deep]

On another note, the silver jubilee reissue 2555X is coming out next week.

 

[minerman]

Jonny: Have you ever considered a DSL??? Just a thought dude, the shared eq is a bitch for some people (mostly who gig), but for recording it's not a big deal....It's basically a 4 channel amp, you just have to tweak the knobs on each mode/channel to your liking...just a thought dude unless you've got your heart set on a JVM....I was in the same boat back in the summer, I was gonna buy a JVM410, but opted for the DSL instead, new, it's waaay cheaper, just sayin'....

The DSL doesn't have the range of tones the JVM410 does, but it is a pretty good amp for the $$$....And, it's got a half-power switch that takes it down to 50w too....

 

[jonny deep]

Jonny: Have you ever considered a DSL??? Just a thought dude, the shared eq is a bitch for some people (mostly who gig), but for recording it's not a big deal....It's basically a 4 channel amp, you just have to tweak the knobs on each mode/channel to your liking...just a thought dude unless you've got your heart set on a JVM....I was in the same boat back in the summer, I was gonna buy a JVM410, but opted for the DSL instead, new, it's waaay cheaper, just sayin'....

The DSL doesn't have the range of tones the JVM410 does, but it is a pretty good amp for the $$$....And, it's got a half-power switch that takes it down to 50w too....

Thanks for the suggestion. I tried the 15W DSL head ages ago and really didn't like it (this was when I first tried the JCM1, which I loved straight away). Never tried the big version, but it's on my radar. Switching down to 50W would be useful, too.

 

[Greg_L]

The DSL is a very good option if you're only going to be recording with it. A DSL40 head would go just right with your cab. It might still leave you wanting that JCM sound though if that's what you're really after.

 

[jonny deep]

I think the 40W is only available as a combo, annoyingly.

 

[minerman]

I think the 40W is only available as a combo, annoyingly.

You're right on that dude, but it's got all the features the 100w head version does, it's just 40/20 watts....It's got the green clean, crunch, then OD1/OD2...You could always disconnect the internal speaker & use it as a head....

FWIW, I've heard the same thing about the smaller 15w DSL, that the Red/OD channel has too much gain, & is basically un-useable...Don't get me wrong, the 100w version I have has tons of gain, & I never have mine past "5" on the dial, but it's a really good sounding amp....No, it's not a JCM800, JMP, Super Lead, etc., but for the price, it's a great amp dude...Just sayin'....

The DSL will come close to an 800 sound with a clean boost to tighten up the low end a little (sorta), & will come close to some of the tones a JVM has, but it's still got it's own thing goin' on...I personally like my DSL100 a lot...While the little 1watter is similar in sound, it can't hold a candle to it honestly...The DSL-1 is a toy compared to the 100 watt version....

If noise is gonna be an issue Jonny, I'd check out the 40w DSL combo, like I mentioned, you can switch it down to 20 watts, disconnect the internal speaker & use your ISO cab dude...I almost bought the 40w combo, but got the little 1 watter instead...I kinda wish I'd went ahead & got the 40w, but I might not be where I am now, gear-wise....

 

[Greg_L]

I think the 40W is only available as a combo, annoyingly.

No shit? I thought I saw a 40w head. I guess it was the 15 or something. That's lame. A 40w head would be cool as shit.

Look, I already had my JCM 800 hooked up, so I knocked out two little clips just to give you an idea of the 2203 at low levels. Same amp settings but different volumes.

Here's the 800 at 1 on the master vol. Keep in mind, this is 1, and it's louder than the TV that was on at the same time. But in my case it's two 4x12 cabs running and not an iso box, so it's gonna naturally be louder in my room than yours. This is the recorded sound of 1 on the master vol.

Not too bad. A little thin, a little fizz, but certainly not terrible IMO.

Now here it is with the master vol on 6. This is the point that the power section really starts coming into play. Same amp settings. This is ear pain loud in the room and way more than loud enough to play with a band.

To me it's thicker and chunkier and more balanced.

 

[jonny deep]

No shit? I thought I saw a 40w head. I guess it was the 15 or something. That's lame. A 40w head would be cool as shit.

Look, I already had my JCM 800 hooked up, so I knocked out two little clips just to give you an idea of the 2203 at low levels. Same amp settings but different volumes.

Here's the 800 at 1 on the master vol. Keep in mind, this is 1, and it's louder than the TV that was on at the same time. But in my case it's two 4x12 cabs running and not an iso box, so it's gonna naturally be louder in my room than yours. This is the recorded sound of 1 on the master vol.

Not too bad. A little thin, a little fizz, but certainly not terrible IMO.

Now here it is with the master vol on 6. This is the point that the power section really starts coming into play. Same amp settings. This is ear pain loud in the room and way more than loud enough to play with a band.

To me it's thicker and chunkier and more balanced.

Awesome - thanks for doing that!

I could hear the tone I love in my JCM1 in the first clip, but you're right - it's a fizzy and a bit thin. In the second clip, it all chunks up and the tone really comes out. Now I want a 2203!

I think maybe you and I have different ideas of painfully loud! I find my 15W amp cranked to be way too loud to be next to.

 

[Greg_L]

Awesome - thanks for doing that!

I could hear the tone I love in my JCM1 in the first clip, but you're right - it's a fizzy and a bit thin. In the second clip, it all chunks up and the tone really comes out. Now I want a 2203!

I think maybe you and I have different ideas of painfully loud! I find my 15W amp cranked to be way too loud to be next to.

Well 15 watts is a loud little amp. 100 watts isn't really technically *that* much louder, but it sure seems louder because it's so clear and percussive....and for me I'm running it out of 8 speakers. Headroom. It's a wonderful thing. 100 watts doesn't flatten out and compress very easily. The bottom stays tight and the top stays clear. It's very dynamic.

So yeah, I forgot to post the settings....
Les Paul Trad - Burstbucker 3
JCM 800
Presence - 2
Bass - 5
Mid - 6
Treb - 4
Preamp vol - 7
Master vol - 1 and 6
1960B 4x12 - Vintage 30 - Audix i5 on axis, on grill, halfway to edge.
No EQ

Those are my usual "live and loud" settings. Obviously they can be tweaked to do better at low volumes. But loud is where this amp likes to be.