The New Tone Thread

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Nah, I've heard Blitzkrieg Bop about eleventy trillion times. :D


I'm definitely a believer of less gain = more sound. I know high-gain is necessary for certain styles, but no thanks for me. My stock standard 2203, 2204, and 1959 have all the rock I want. I don't use all the gain of any of those amps. They just sound awesome.
 
Greg_L said:
Nah, I've heard Blitzkrieg Bop about eleventy trillion times. :D


I'm definitely a believer of less gain = more sound. I know high-gain is necessary for certain styles, but no thanks for me. My stock standard 2203, 2204, and 1959 have all the rock I want. I don't use all the gain of any of those amps. They just sound awesome.
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I agree on this wholeheartedly; gain becomes a tone-sucker as you start to add too much of it. The amp doesn't breathe anymore at all; it just sounds gagged, bloated, and lopsided. Some of my favorite tones are those Tom Petty dirty tones, like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP5YWmcp49U&index=4&list=PL637vGdGXuvKAWGNjz3AxZl0JO3vvjyE-

The riff at 1:05 just kills (IMHO).

This is just great-sounding too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0OKGLwW1Cw&list=PL637vGdGXuvKAWGNjz3AxZl0JO3vvjyE-&index=5

It's a lot like those AC/DC tones on Back in Black. If you listen to Angus's solo on "You Shook Me," it's amazing how little gain there really is on it, but it sings like a bird.
 
The guitars on Back in Black are some of the best tones ever recorded on any album in any era for ever and ever amen.
 
tons of gain sounds like ass live ..... even for metal.
I know a couple of 'semi-name' metal guys around here and their live tones just suck.

Great players but tone like ass. When you have tons of gain there's no note definition and you almost can't even tell what's being played.
One of them sat-in with a band I was playing with last year and he had to use my rig so he had to use my much cleaner settings. Sounded great and he even commented on how good it sounded ....... next time I saw him live it was back to gain-city! :D

Often when guys go for a lotta gain they're actually wanting the compression it brings. Compression and gain are things that make playing easier .... especially all those hammer-on/pull-offs and tapping that those guys do. You can play almost anything and it sounds like you're really doing something!

But I've read interviews with some of the bigger metal guys and they all say in the studio they don't use nearly as much gain as you might think.
And, of course, Slash isn't even metal so he's gonna use much less gain ...... his sounds really aren't all that high of a gain ...... more like a cranked amp type gain.
 
Lt. Bob said:
tons of gain sounds like ass live ..... even for metal.
I know a couple of 'semi-name' metal guys around here and their live tones just suck.

Great players but tone like ass. When you have tons of gain there's no note definition and you almost can't even tell what's being played.
One of them sat-in with a band I was playing with last year and he had to use my rig so he had to use my much cleaner settings. Sounded great and he even commented on how good it sounded ....... next time I saw him live it was back to gain-city! :D

Often when guys go for a lotta gain they're actually wanting the compression it brings. Compression and gain are things that make playing easier .... especially all those hammer-on/pull-offs and tapping that those guys do. You can play almost anything and it sounds like you're really doing something!

But I've read interviews with some of the bigger metal guys and they all say in the studio they don't use nearly as much gain as you might think.
And, of course, Slash isn't even metal so he's gonna use much less gain ...... his sounds really aren't all that high of a gain ...... more like a cranked amp type gain.
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100% amen. Well said.

That's what Slash-gain sounds like to me too. Loud amp, not so much tons of preamp gain.
 
Boy-fuckin'-howdy you guys let me have it with both barrels about my use of gain.....lol....just kidding....Just to be honest, a big reason I use a lot of gain, it covers up/hides shitty playing/technique, & I'll be the first to admit it...hahaha

When I first started recording, I'd crank the gain all the way on the ampsims I was using (the terrible sounding Zoom HD8 sims btw) because that's just what I'd always done....but, I've learned over the years, that really, less is more....Of course, when I do the hair-metal type thing, I use lots of gain, but really, lately, I've been using less & less, & I personally think my tones have improved quite a bit....

Fuckin' bastards I work for are not only making us work this Saturday, but Wed before Thanksgiving now too....Those fuckers are so greedy, it ain't funny....but, I gotta do what I gotta do....the 4 days will still be nice, but not as nice as 5 days off....oh well, fuck it, I'll just have to deal with it....

Gonna try to post some tones in the morning, just depends on what time I roll my sorry ass outta bed though...:D.
 
well, I wasn't really talking about you though ...... just giving my opinion on the gain thing ..... but yes, it will hide a multitude of sins.
But I think as most players evolve, gain becomes something they use less of because they don't need it as much.
And we've all heard your tones getting better and better ..... they sound pretty damned good to me at this point.
I can see you dialing in more specific sounds but in general I don't know how much better they can get ..... they're pretty damned good.

Too bad about work but make that money ..... I have a 5 hour gig on Thanksgiving day ....... gimme money please! :D
 
I know you guys weren't raggin' on me dude, I was just kidding, but really, I still do like a lot of gain....Can't help it, I'm still lost in the 80's hair metal days, & probably always will be...

I really appreciate the compliments on my tones too dude, it's been a long, sometimes frustrating ride, but I'm pretty confident with 'em now, but I will say that you guys helping me along, & some new (and awesome btw) gear has helped a lot too....

Yep, work sucks, but this Saturday will be overtime, so it'll come in handy next week, about all my bills hit at once, so I'll be able to wipe 'em all out at one time....or I should anyway....

Most likely I'm gonna pull the trigger on some more gear tomorrow night, I need a volume pot for my strat, so I'm gonna order a few (to have some spares) of those, & most likely a new speaker for my bastard 4x12....Haven't decided whether to go with WGS ET65, or just buy a Celestion re-issue...The WGS is quite a bit cheaper, but I've read good reviews for both, just comes down to what I pick really....I'd like to have the "real" thing of course, but wanna save a little $$$ too....We'll see tomorrow night I suppose, I'll let you guys know what I decide....

Shower, supper & sleep...3 more shifts this week still yet....

Thanks again dude.....
 
Lol. Yeah man, we weren't bashing you at all. Like Lt Bob, my opinions are just based on what I see and hear with high gain people in general. I don't play out as much as LT, but I play out a fair amount. I see and hear all these Diezels and Kranks and ENGLs.....well, I see them anyway. You can't really hear them because they're all washed out with too much gain.

With my drumming gig, my own lead guitarist is a too-much-gain guy. He sets his JVM to rip faces off, and really, not a single face is ripped. He uses a 400w cab with the finest vintage high wattage "metal" speakers in it (which means stiff and no breakup)....and he almost vanishes in the mix sometimes. He sounds really great by himself but once the band gets rolling, it's not so great. Thank goodness we play venues with decent sound systems because he would be tonally invisible if his cab weren't mic'd. It's sad to me. Great amp, great guitars, pretty dang good player....and he washes himself out with fucking gain.
 
Greg_L said:
With my drumming gig, my own lead guitarist is a too-much-gain guy. He sets his JVM to rip faces off, and really, not a single face is ripped. .......he washes himself out with fucking gain.
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Yep ..... that's exactly the result.
Depending on the player it's either sad or hilarious! :laughings:

But it's a funny thing ....... telling someone their tone is bad is like pissing in the wind. I don't think I've ever seen anyone listen to such comments ...... they have to discover it themselves ..... until then you can't tell them anything.
They WILL get pissed off!
:D
 
Lt. Bob said:
Yep ..... that's exactly the result.
Depending on the player it's either sad or hilarious! :laughings:

But it's a funny thing ....... telling someone their tone is bad is like pissing in the wind. I don't think I've ever seen anyone listen to such comments ...... they have to discover it themselves ..... until then you can't tell them anything.
They WILL get pissed off!
:D
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1000000% true.

It's a very dicey proposition, especially with lead guitar players. Like with my guy, we have a good relationship. There's no bad blood or anything. He's a good friend. But even with that I have to be very very delicate when approaching him about things like his tone. He is VERY sensitive about criticism, even very constructive criticism. He'll listen, he'll even agree sometimes, but he just won't do anything about it. He's stuck in a stupid 80s shred gain mindset. He complains he can't hear himself. Well duh. Your shit is so overdriven, compressed, and thinned out it just vanishes.

For example, we have the same amp. He uses a JVM 410, and I have one too, so I'm pretty intimately familiar with how that amp acts and sounds. His go-to channel and mode is the OD1 channel, Orange mode. Now listen to that last Slash clip I just tried a few posts up. That's the same channel and mode that my guy uses, but I had the gain on 2. It's a lot of fucking gain! He runs his gain on like 5, which is just ridiculous to me, and he uses speakers that are stiff and have a naturally mid-scooped character. It's a recipe for thin weak tone that doesn't cut through. It records well, sure, but live it's a mess....unless it's mic'd and jammed through the mains.
 
Gonna pull the trigger on a Celestion G1265 tonight, probably be here around the first of the week....so that speaker will make me 9 - 12" Celestions....enough for 2 - 4x12's, plus the ISO cab...but, the impedance on 'em are all over the place, so I'm gonna have to do some more buying/trading to get 'em all the same...I'd like to get all 16 ohm, from what I've read, running an amp at 16 ohms makes it run just a little cooler, & there's just a little tonal difference, but not sure....

So, including the 65 I'll have:

5 - G12-T75's (16 ohm)
2 - V30's (8 ohm)
1 - Greenback (8 ohm)
1 - '65 (?)

I could get an 8 ohm '65, & put it (the '65), the V30's & Greenback together in the 4x12, that would give me an 8 ohm load, as to be honest, I don't use the T-75's very much since I got the Chupacabra...Gonna weigh my options & think about it for a day, might go with the 8 ohm '65, & get another cab (an un-loaded 2x12 or two)....

Ordered some thinner solder, a few volume pots, & enough strings to re-string all my guitars & bass last night, all that should be here Saturday....

Gotta run, literally, see you guys after while...ran outta time on the tones today, maybe tomorrow...
 
I think I notice a difference with my Tiny Terror when running into 16 ohms as opposed to 8 ohm speakers.
My understanding is that you're using all the tranny instead of tapping out early.
But I do feel like it sounds better into 16ohms.
 
I find that my amps are a little tighter when set to 16 ohms. I definitely like them best at 16. When I run two cabs I naturally have to switch to 8, and it's good, but I like 16 better.

With the 8x10 cabs at my new band's practice space I have to run at 4 ohms, and I'm not happy with that. Maybe it's those cabs, but it makes everything seem a little harsh.
 
Hey guys. I've never switched the tubes on my amplifier before. The 2nd channel just went dead, as in I can turn the master and gain to max and get nothing but a faint whisper out of the channel. I've head the amp head for about two years.
I really don't know where to start. I use it for low-high gain sounds mainly.

Dvmark - Triple 6 new release <- amp
 
Do you have any good tubes to swap into it? You could just do one tube at a time.
 
No, I literally have nothing. This is the first time I've had a tube head long enough that a tube went defunct.
 
Schwarzenyaeger said:
No, I literally have nothing. This is the first time I've had a tube head long enough that a tube went defunct.
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Very carefully get in there with the amp on and gently tap each tube with a pencil or something non conductive. Don't dig around. Just tap them with a chopstick or something. See if you get sound or any weird pops or noises. If you find a tube acting stupid, clean the pins and socket, run the tube in and out a few times to knock off the crud, and see if that helps. If it's still buggy, start swapping tubes around. Preamp tubes don't fail often, but when there's a problem, it's probably a tube 90% of the time.
 
Sounds fair. I'll give it a shot on the weekend.
Thanks.
 
it's not gonna be a power tube though ..... gotta be in the preamp because that's the only tubes that would affect just one channel. If it were a power tube it'd be both channels.
 
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