The New Tone Thread

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Lt. Bob said:
That's why I like to do drumbs with a keyboard. It's easy to get different impact levels and dynamics and stuff.

In other news, the Blue Angel has significant issues.
Pulled the power tubes ..... still blows fuses ..... pulled the rectifier tube ..... still blows fuses.
Next step .... changing out the rectifier diodes.
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Wow, you jammed that bitch to death!

Keep us updated.
 
Greg_L said:
Lol. Damn. That's what I don't like about programmed drums. I get that not everyone can use a real kit, or play a real kit, but all those tweaks you have to do just happen naturally with a human. In the time it takes for you to fiddle fuck one song to sound human, I could literally track a whole album. :D
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Oh, I get the time thing man, it does take fucking forever to get a song ready for me to track, really dude....I pretty much know what I wanna hear, it's just getting the software to do what I want it to...For the past while, I've been trying to get the drums "finished" before I record my "final" tracks, as in most songs/albums/whatever, the drums are recorded first, & everything else is tracked to 'em...

Greg_L said:
But you do what you gotta do. Keep playing with those knobs and shit. Play with the timing a little. No drummer, no matter how good, stays dead on the grid. It's pretty common for a drummer to speed up just a hair in a fill going into a chorus.
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Right, I already know that dude, & Jamstix has a timing thing that can be automated....I've been speeding up the fills going into each different part, maybe I'm not doing enough of that though...



Greg_L said:
It's common to play a chorus harder, or if the drummer is on the ride cymbal he might hit the snare a little harder because his hi-hat arm isn't in the way. I play my hats pretty high to avoid that problem, but most drummers naturally play the snare with a little less gusto when they're on the hats. Little things like that are natural variances that make humans sound human.
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This is kinda new to me here man, you see, shit like this will actually help me program these fuckers better you know??? I mean, I've known for years a drummer usually will hit harder during a chorus, that's the "big" part in most songs, but the snare/hats thing you mentioned will help me too...


Greg_L said:
I can only imagine it's a nightmare to dial that shit up in a drum program, but those are the kinds of things fake drum tracks need. Velocity and power doesn't just apply to the drums though. The hats and cymbals get hit differently too. Listen to a Phil Rudd AC/DC drum track. He's like the ultimate robot human right? Listen to his hats. If he's playing 8th notes on the hats, listen to the "and" beats. 1-and-2-and-3-and-4. His downbeats are hard, the ands in between are softer. It's like....TSStssTSStssTSStss. That doesn't seem like a big deal, and I bet he doesn't even think about it, but it's things like that really drive the beat and keep it from sounding like a drum machine.
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On the velocity thing, I usually never max 'em out on anything really, I try to have "120" the max (I'm sure you know the velocity range is 0-127, right??? Just making sure...) to keep from having the machine-gun thing (which happens on hi-hats & cymbals too, not just shells/drums...), & to leave myself some "headroom" with the velocity if I need it later, but it really depends on the song too...Of course, a bluesy, laid back thing ain't gonna have everything hit like Animal from the Muppets (which is actually a drummer they "modeled" in Jamstix...LOL...)...

But yeah dude, on top of getting my guitar tones dialed in, I'm still working on the drum programming thing. plus being the bass player, plus all the other shit....I've came a long, long way from where I was with the drum programming, but it's still not good enough for me...Thanks for the tips, I'll copy/paste this shit to a notepad thing I've had for years now, along with a bunch of other tips/tricks...Thanks again, & if you can think of anything else, please do lemme know dude....

Lt. Bob said:
That's why I like to do drumbs with a keyboard. It's easy to get different impact levels and dynamics and stuff.
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Well Bob, I've got a midi keyboard, but it's really faster for me just to use what I'm used to actually....I did the piano roll thing for a long time, with midi loops that I'd alter/tweak to fit the song, while Jamstix is just better for me all around, I'm still learning it too...I've got a shit-load of midi loops that came with my Toontrack stuff, & I've been importing basic beats into Jamstix & letting it's "drummers" translate/play/whatever, while it does make a difference, I'm still on a long road...LOL...

Are you gonna put your amp in the shop, or are you handy enough to fix it on your own Bob??? Just curious, I could probably do something small/simple/easy, but my best bet would be to take something like that to someone who knows what the fuck they're doing....LOL



I actually bought a set of Rock Band drums a couple years ago for like $25, & got 'em to work in Reaper with my drum vsti's....LOL...While it worked, I felt like a fuckin' idiot trying to play those things, I'm about 6'1" or so, & weigh about 215-220, so I'm not a little guy at all....I looked like a monkey trying to fuck a football....LOL....

It ain't easy to do all this shit by myself, I write, arrange, program the drums, mix, master, all by myself...While I've gotten a lot better at it, it's still a lot of work just for one song by myself....I'm gonna set myself a time limit on these songs (I've got 10 of 'em...), & do my very best to make 'em as good as I can in that time slot....

You guys wouldn't believe how many drum samples/expansion packs/drum vsti's I've got, I've literally spent thousands of bucks on this shit over the years....I'd list 'em all, but I'm ashamed for you guys to see how much I've really spent on this shit in the last 5 years or so...LOL...Let's just say I've spent enough on just drum software to buy vintage amp, cab, & a guitar or two....LOL...

Thanks again for the tips guys, & if there's anything else, lemme know....
 
minerman said:
Are you gonna put your amp in the shop, or are you handy enough to fix it on your own Bob??? Just curious, I could probably do something small/simple/easy, but my best bet would be to take something like that to someone who knows what the fuck they're doing....LOL



...
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I'm handy enough ..... I actually have a diploma on the wall that says I'm an electronics tech. Not to overstate it though ..... like anything else, the best techs are the ones that do it everyday all day long. I've rarely done anything other than work on my own stuff.
I had intended to do it more full time but my piano tuning/repair business got over the top busy so I went in that direction instead.

So I'm absolutely qualified ...... but if it gets to the point where it needs to be put on a scope ....... well, I sold my scope so it'd have to go in.

But the rectifier diodes smell like magic smoke so I'ma gonna change them out next week. I'll take a pic when I do it.
Those diodes are a common failure point and they're cheap so may as well try changing them out.
 
Cool Bob, I didn't know you were qualified...I'm qualified to piss my wife off on a daily basis....LOL...Keep us informed on the amp dude...
 
Here's you an amp Greg....From what I've read, just a modded-hot-rodded Marshall....with a riduculous price tag...not sure, but I think the head alone is like $3700....:eek:




While I'm sure it sounds great, too much fuckin' money for an amp for me.....

Just keepin' our thread going....off to work in a few minutes, but I'm supposed to have 2 big days off....that could change before 10:30 tonight though....
 
Friedman is just a Marshall modder. I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that he just copies the famous modders of yesteryear. If he can get someone to pay $3700 for a modded Marshall then more power to him. My biggest gripe with all of the famous Marshall mods is they all sound like spandex and hairspray. I personally don't want to sound like Slash, EVH, Randy Rhoads, or Jerry Cantrell.
 
Ok guys, here's a song I've been working on, I promised myself I wasn't gonna post any of these unitl I was done with 'em, but I'm trying to get my fake drums to sound real over here....the Gerg has given me a few pointers on a few things that would help (I've posted this clip before btw...just with different "drums"....), & I've spent basically a few hours working/piddling with 'em, trying to get 'em to sound more real/human....

I've also tried to get Dropbox to co-operate with me, I've had it for years, but could never get it to work, even when I set the permissions right/correctly...Lemme know if it works on your end, as so far it does on mine....I know there are some warts/fuck-ups here/there:D, but I've been mainly working on the drums today....

Lemme know what you guys think, the clip has:
Les Paul, DSL-1, T-75, '57 & C1 mics
AT3 for bass
Superior for the drum sounds, with Jamstix 3 creating the "performance"/midi...



real guitars with fake drums
 
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I can't really hear today dude. Lol. I came down with a wicked ass cold. Fucking sucks cuz I broke my streak - It's been almost 8 years to the day since I last got sick enough to hate life.

I am listening to the drum performance though....so what I'm hearing is I think maybe you actually over-humanized it! Lol. It now kind of sounds like a sloppy bad drummer. Some of the fills are too sloppy. Some of the kick work is off. You're on the right track but I think you overshot it a little.
 
Greg_L said:
I can't really hear today dude. Lol. I came down with a wicked ass cold. Fucking sucks cuz I broke my streak - It's been almost 8 years to the day since I last got sick enough to hate life.
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I had that shit a couple weeks ago, & if it's the same shit I had, it'll take about a week to get completely rid of...Didn't know you were sick dude, I thought you'd flew to the Super Bowl or some crazy shit....LOL...Hope you get better dude....

Greg_L said:
I am listening to the drum performance though....so what I'm hearing is I think maybe you actually over-humanized it! Lol. It now kind of sounds like a sloppy bad drummer. Some of the fills are too sloppy. Some of the kick work is off. You're on the right track but I think you overshot it a little.
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:facepalm: Well, I suppose those knobs & sliders in Jamstix do work pretty good then huh???? LOL....FWIW, that's a completely different kit, that reacts to the midi a lot different...To me, it sounds more like a real or natural drum kit, & the samples/sounds are a lot less processed....I've been working on that song all weekend, even after the version I posted here, trying different kits/sounds & different things....I've still got the version of the project that I posted here ("save as" is a life-saver sometimes...LOL), so I guess I'll go back/forth between the two versions & make the changes a little more subtle...LOL...Must sound to you like I actually played those drums....LOL...
 
You still alive over there Greg???? Just wondering about ya, haven't heard a thing in a couple of days, & that ain't like the Gerg.....
 
Lol, yeah, still alive barely. Man this shit is kicking my ass. :(

I do have some shred noodling from my buddy Chris though. I'll post them in a bit....
 
Okay guys, here's my buddy Chris wankfesting in his apartment. I originally did a phone recording at a live practice but it sucked real bad. So the next day (last saturday) we had a gig and I went and hung out with him in the afternoon leading up to the show. This was done cold, no prep, no warm up, I grabbed his wank shred Charvel Floyd Rose thing off the rack, stuck it in his hands, and demanded he wank noodle shred all over the place. He's always happy to shred. So anyway, remember that little "Green" Orange TH30 I had for a little while? Well it's at his place now. That amp gets used by more people than a mexican whore. We had to do this low volume as it was middle of the day at his apartment. You can hear him picking at times. So here's what I can remember of the specifics.....

Charvel something-or-other w/ Floyd Rose, bridge pickup.
Orange "Green" TH30 7w dirty mode - master vol and global amp tone around 12:00.
Gain - ummmm....maybe around 2:00
Front end slammed with Maxon OD
Lopoline 2x12 w/ WGS Veteran 30 (Vintage 30 clones)
Recorded with a Tascam DR-05 stereo field recorder leaned up against the grill.

General wanky ramen noodles

I had to pretty much force and beg him to try this one. I've heard him play this cleanly note-for-note about ten million times. This isn't his best shot at it by any means, but it's close enough for a cold go at it with a hungry drummer goading him along. Then we went to Popeye's. :)
Chris's erection eruption
 
Good to hear from you Greg....If the cold thing you have is anything like what I had a few weeks ago, it's awful....Hang in there, it'll pass eventually man, I almost called in to miss work one day, it was that bad (if I call in/miss work, something's not right dude...)....again, hang in there...

I thought you said your buddy could shred dude....pffft....LOL....Just kidding man, very nice, especially since he didn't wanna do it to begin with....Seriously, very nice chops, & I'm sure that's nothing compared to what he could do when he wants to....Be sure to tell him he's my fuckin' hero....LOL....

In other news, I'm still racking my brain programming the drums over here...LOL...I think a lot to do with the last 2 clips I've posted are the kits I was using...I'm in the process of building my own personal "Franken-Kit" along with doing some more fucking around with Jamstix....I'm pretty sure I'll get 'em to sound better, but it's gonna take a little time, like anything else...
 
Yeah that's a mess of wanking, but it's a little taste of how he rolls most of the time. He wasn't into it right then and there and he wasn't warmed up or anything. We were literally walking out the door to go eat and I was like "hey man let me record some noodling real quick". He doesn't play like that in our band though. Our music is really dumbed down. We let him go off on his solos, but we try to keep him reeled in most of the time. He'll try to fill every solo with as many notes as he can if you allow him to go unregulated. Lol. Tracking his leads is a time consuming affair. I have to let him be him, but I also have to make sure the noodling fits the song. So we go back and forth. It's never contentious though. He surprisingly has no ego whatsoever. In fact, he's like the anti-guitar hero. As much as he likes to rip it up, he wants little or no fanfare about anything he does. He's sheepish and shy most of the time. I know he feels that he's being wasted in our fast cars and rock and roll band, but he's been with us for like 12 years now, so he must be happy enough. He's a very good live player and I'm sure any metal band would be glad to have him.
 
Lt. Bob said:
I'm handy enough ..... I actually have a diploma on the wall that says I'm an electronics tech. Not to overstate it though ..... like anything else, the best techs are the ones that do it everyday all day long. I've rarely done anything other than work on my own stuff.
I had intended to do it more full time but my piano tuning/repair business got over the top busy so I went in that direction instead.

So I'm absolutely qualified ...... but if it gets to the point where it needs to be put on a scope ....... well, I sold my scope so it'd have to go in.

But the rectifier diodes smell like magic smoke so I'ma gonna change them out next week. I'll take a pic when I do it.
Those diodes are a common failure point and they're cheap so may as well try changing them out.
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scopes are a dime a dozen on ebay these days, buy a dozen.
 
playing next to my buddy Jimmy. He had a 67 super reverb and a les paul, I had a 68 super reverb and a 335. We both had chandler overdrives. His tone smoked mine. He could probably get better tone out of an Alamo amp and a squire strat than I could with the best equipment available.
 

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minerman said:
real guitars with fake drums[/B][/URL]
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just listened. Sounds okay to me, but I am no commonsewer of music. And, then again, listening to a compressed version on shitty computer speakers is really no indication. I have got to hook up something better to the pc.
 
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