The New Tone Thread

[Greg_L]

How tall is the new stack with head?
An impressive tower of power you have acquired.
Have you slaved them together?

Haha thanks Ray. My wife came in as I was setting it up and, her exact words, "you have a real problem".
The two Bs with a head on top is standard full stack height - around 6'5" I guess? I'm 6'1 and its a little taller than me.
I've only used one head at a time into two cabs. I'd need an A/B box to run two or more at once. But now with three heads and three cabs, I should give it a try. I assume there will be some weird phase issues.

What I'd really like is a switching setup in which I could leave everything connected all the time and just flip through options. Like send any head into any cab at any time with the push of a button. That would be cool.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Okay here's some updated pics as the insanity rolls on....

You're insane! I love it!

I'ma try to take a pic of all my amps stacked up this week so she'll know you're normal.!

 

[minerman]

You gotta somehow go try a Blackstar first. After your DSL, I can't imagine you'd be too thrilled with one. I try em out all the time and I'm rarely left impressed. The only one I ever liked was a Club 50 (I think it was called) and it was a full stack. And it had to be loud. But you might find one you like. They don't do anything special for me. At low volumes they sound kind of murky and generic. Kind of like a Jet City amp. Not terrible, but nothing great. If you want a bad ass little 5 watt head, look at the Tubemeister. It will sound better than the Blackstar.

Thought about my ramblings at work tonight... Dunno why I've been looking at those HT-5 heads, fuck, I had the combo....FWIW though, I think there was something wrong with it, the fx loop was always shitty as hell, maybe I got a lemon, I dunno....Don't think I'm gonna go there again though....That was just me spouting off as usual...LOL....

The Tubemeister....almost bought the 18w version, but opted for the T15...I've often wondered if I made the right choice or not...Maybe in a few months, maybe....I'd still like a lower watt head to be honest, the T15 is almost too much for me now, even with the ISO cab, the low end rumble carries through the house quite a bit, so, I'll probably just stick to what I've got for now, & wait & see if anything else catches my eye....

Cool stacks dude, that's just crazy man....I wish my wife could hear one of those babies cranked just one time, then she'd actually hear/see what loud is....LOL...

No work tomorrow, so I'm gonna try to make the best of the day, recording some more guitar & bass tracks on the songs....Sunday's already planned out, gotta go help Mom do a few things at "home", & that'll take the biggest part of the day, but, it's gotta be done, the old man ain't around to do it anymore, so us kids have to step in & take over where he left off....sure miss him, it's getting a little better, but I still have my moments...had one today on the way to work, but, that's part of it I suppose....

Back to the amps, which is your favorite right now Greg??? I'm guessing the plexi, but could be way off....Fuck, I'd settle for any of 'em.....

 

[Greg_L]

You're insane! I love it!

I'ma try to take a pic of all my amps stacked up this week so she'll know you're normal.!

Yeah do it that would be awesome.

Have you seen Joe Perry's stage setup lately? It's pretty cool. He's got like a jigsaw puzzle of all makes and models of heads and cabs and combos all jammed together. It almost looks like a junkyard of amps. It's purely for show obviously, but I like it.

Thought about my ramblings at work tonight... Dunno why I've been looking at those HT-5 heads, fuck, I had the combo....FWIW though, I think there was something wrong with it, the fx loop was always shitty as hell, maybe I got a lemon, I dunno....Don't think I'm gonna go there again though....That was just me spouting off as usual...LOL....

The Tubemeister....almost bought the 18w version, but opted for the T15...I've often wondered if I made the right choice or not...Maybe in a few months, maybe....I'd still like a lower watt head to be honest, the T15 is almost too much for me now, even with the ISO cab, the low end rumble carries through the house quite a bit, so, I'll probably just stick to what I've got for now, & wait & see if anything else catches my eye....

Is there a type of sound or style you're not getting with the Tweaker or DSL? You've been killing it lately with those two amps. The problem, as I see it, is that there aren't many reasonably priced low <5 watt amps that do your 80s Marshall gain style very well. There are great low power amps out there, but they don't have *that* sound. But if just a different flavor is what you're after, there's plenty to choose from. Maybe you could make the Blackstar work now that you're a lot better at everything.

No work tomorrow, so I'm gonna try to make the best of the day, recording some more guitar & bass tracks on the songs....Sunday's already planned out, gotta go help Mom do a few things at "home", & that'll take the biggest part of the day, but, it's gotta be done, the old man ain't around to do it anymore, so us kids have to step in & take over where he left off....sure miss him, it's getting a little better, but I still have my moments...had one today on the way to work, but, that's part of it I suppose....

Yeah man just keep busy with regular stuff. The only way to heal is to deal, or something like that. Just keep plugging away. Take care of mom. Mom's are special people.

Back to the amps, which is your favorite right now Greg??? I'm guessing the plexi, but could be way off....Fuck, I'd settle for any of 'em.....

I don't have a favorite. I really don't. They all do their things very well. I'm thrilled shitless with everything. But if it all had to go away and I could keep only one head and cab, I'd probably want the JVM and the A cab. For regular dinking around and pure versatility the JVM kills. I can go from sparkling clean surfabilly to way-too-much-gain metal tones with the push of a button. The JVM is a fantastic amp. Truly amazing. It sounds great at low volumes, it sounds great live and recorded. Killer amp, and I'm really glad to have it. So yeah, I guess the JVM is my favorite after all. The only thing I wish it did better is break up in the power section sooner, like a Plexi, but my negative feedback mod takes care of that if I want it. And it's ugly as shit with all those fucking knobs on the front, but it's an awesome amp.

The Plexi and 2204 have to be really loud to hit their sweet spots IMO. Even with the master volume mod, the Plexi still has to be really loud to sound right. I'm totally fine with that because I know they're not bedroom amps. I got them for their big rock and roll sound. But that also means they stay off most of the time when I'm just goofing around at home. And the 2204 is very interactive. You change one setting and it throws off everything else. It's kind of picky like that. You gotta dial it in and just leave it. But to my ears they both seem to work better in live situations than the JVM does for my kind of music. The JVM is almost too refined. The 2204 and Plexi are like, here I am motherfuckers.

 

[antichef]

I've only used one head at a time into two cabs. I'd need an A/B box to run two or more at once. But now with three heads and three cabs, I should give it a try. I assume there will be some weird phase issues.

What I'd really like is a switching setup in which I could leave everything connected all the time and just flip through options. Like send any head into any cab at any time with the push of a button. That would be cool.

I ran one of the four inputs of my JMP into the input of my 2204, with the guitar plugged into the JMP and each head going to its own cab. Sounded good to me, but the guitar signal was indeed being split and attenuated between the two. I experimented with turning off the JMP and using an A/B box to switch between that setup and going direct to the 2204. The difference in input signal strength was dramatic. So a transparent sounding active A/B/Y box that boosts seems in order. I think I have one but haven't tested yet.

Getting everything set up switchably is killer, but then you get a gig and rip out some of the stuff and you're too tired to put everything back together when you get home and... I guess it's my age

But if you find a good safe way to switch heads and cabs on the fly - please post about it

 

[Greg_L]

Without knowing anything about electrical theory, the first issue that I can think of with unlimited switching on the fly is matching the impedance of the head to the cabs. All of my cabs are 16 ohm mono, or 8 ohm stereo. I use them as 16 ohm mono cabs. It's no problem to go from head to cab one at a time with everything set to 16 ohms, but activating another cab to one head would mean having to cut the amps ohm rating to half - 8 ohms. How do you do that on the fly? I can imagine a big ol footswitch that switches things around, but how would I account for having to flip the amp's ohm rating? It seems I'd be able to assign any cab to any head, but only one for one at any given time. Or I could gamble with keeping each head at 8 ohms and having a mismatch when using one cab. It's a mismatch in the amp's favor, but it's still a mismatch and isn't that rule #1 of what not to do?

 

[Lt. Bob]

Without knowing anything about electrical theory, the first issue that I can think of with unlimited switching on the fly is matching the impedance of the head to the cabs. All of my cabs are 16 ohm mono, or 8 ohm stereo. I use them as 16 ohm mono cabs. It's no problem to go from head to cab one at a time with everything set to 16 ohms, but activating another cab to one head would mean having to cut the amps ohm rating to half - 8 ohms. How do you do that on the fly? I can imagine a big ol footswitch that switches things around, but how would I account for having to flip the amp's ohm rating? It seems I'd be able to assign any cab to any head, but only one for one at any given time. Or I could gamble with keeping each head at 8 ohms and having a mismatch when using one cab. It's a mismatch in the amp's favor, but it's still a mismatch and isn't that rule #1 of what not to do?

I'm not sure ..... my take on matching the correct tranny tap to the cab is that it's primarily to get the maximum efficiency outta the amp more than it's for making the amp safe.
If you use a mismatched load you won't get as much power.
That's why amps with taps have one power rating regardless of load while amps without taps (usually solid state) will have different power ratings for different loads.
I'm not so sure that it'll damage your amp.

I can say one thing for sure ...... when I talked to a mesa tech on the phone about some other issues with an amp I asked about this and he said that the different taps did sound different and to try them all to pick the one I liked best.
I said, "But I can't set it for 4 ohms if I'm running a 16 ohm speaker or for 16 ohms if I'm running a 4 ohm right?"
His response: "Doesn't matter .... won't hurt anything".

I'm not responsible if you blow an amp but I'm under the impression that it's not as big a deal as many make it to be.

Kinda like rebiasing when you change power tubes. Most guys make it seem like you'll destroy your amp if you don't and it's simply not so. You MAY get a change in sound if you don't but it would be extremely rare and unlikely that you'd damage anything.
I never rebias and have never rebiased any amp in 50 years and I've retubed many, many of them.

 

[Greg_L]

Yeah I've heard similar stuff....like it doesn't matter as long as there's a speaker load, or your cab load can exceed the amp's setting, but not vice-versa. I don't know enough about it to be comfortable with experimenting. Alls I know is that if I set my amp to 16 ohm and use a 16 ohm cab, nothing bad happens.

I'm really just day dreaming. My only reason for wanting to be able to switch all this stuff around on the fly is pure laziness. It's not really so I can blare them all at once. Just ease of use. Even just a junction box, like a snake, would be cool so I don't have to reach behind the amps all the time to switch from one to another. I could leave the cabs plugged into the box, and plug the amps into the box. Maybe something like this.....

So I use one single 16 ohm tap on each head, and maybe incorporate some kind of switch and resistance divider into the box? I don't know. Does anyone already make something like this?

 

[Lt. Bob]

Yeah I've heard similar stuff....like it doesn't matter as long as there's a speaker load, or your cab load can exceed the amp's setting, but not vice-versa. I don't know enough about it to be comfortable with experimenting. Alls I know is that if I set my amp to 16 ohm and use a 16 ohm cab, nothing bad happens.

I'm really just day dreaming. My only reason for wanting to be able to switch all this stuff around on the fly is pure laziness. It's not really so I can blare them all at once. Just ease of use. Even just a junction box, like a snake, would be cool so I don't have to reach behind the amps all the time to switch from one to another. I could leave the cabs plugged into the box, and plug the amps into the box. Maybe something like this.....
View attachment 84737
So I use one single 16 ohm tap on each head, and maybe incorporate some kind of switch and resistance divider into the box? I don't know. Does anyone already make something like this?

I'm sure someone does ...... seems like the kind of thing studios would find useful and/or touring set ups.

And you do know that eventually you have to hook them ALL up and crank it right?

 

[minerman]

Is there a type of sound or style you're not getting with the Tweaker or DSL? You've been killing it lately with those two amps. The problem, as I see it, is that there aren't many reasonably priced low <5 watt amps that do your 80s Marshall gain style very well. There are great low power amps out there, but they don't have *that* sound. But if just a different flavor is what you're after, there's plenty to choose from. Maybe you could make the Blackstar work now that you're a lot better at everything.

Well, while I do really like the tones I've been getting lately with the DSL (I honestly haven't even turned the T15 on in a couple weeks...to me, the DSL kills it for the type of stuff I do....), I'd just like a different "flavor" if that makes any sense....That's why I think I'd be better off trying out some pedals (like the Hot Plexi from JOYO....it's supposed to be a clone of the Carl Martin Plexitone, & it's supposed to be damn close, at way over half the price....remember, I'm a cheap fucker....)...

I keep going back to the POD/X3L for different dirt tones, & yeah, the X3L's tones have that mid-range thing to 'em, but, they'd probably work in a mix, with my other tones....

Guess I'm over-thinking it again, wanting more gear....LOL...Honestly though, I think there was something wrong with the Blackstar amp I had, it just didn't sound "right" to me, the treble knob didn't make a lot of difference like the DSL's does, & the ISF knob did change the tone a little, but not night/day like everyone (including Blackstar) said it was supposed to...maybe I had a lemon, who knows....But, for $250 new, it could be another addition to my arsenal....I'm probably just over-thinking it again, & getting GAS for more shit....LOL....

My best bet (and cheapest) would probably get a couple/few of those JOYO pedals & try 'em out....For about $40/each, it wouldn't be much of a $$$ loss if they sucked/didn't work for me....

I suppose after all this rambling, the one tone I'm still after is a plexi-type thing, but at low volume...That's why I keep bringing up the JOYO/Carl Martin pedals...along with those Bogner stomps....Guess I'm just gonna have to keep dialing/tweaking with what I've got for now, those tones are probably in the gear I have now, I just need to find 'em (I did get pretty close to the VH I tone a while back...with a fuckin' ampsim....LOL)....

Yeah man just keep busy with regular stuff. The only way to heal is to deal, or something like that. Just keep plugging away. Take care of mom. Mom's are special people.

Definitely dude, my Mom's the best, even with all that's been going on the last few months, she's still worried about us kids...Special isn't close to what my Mom is dude....She's a strong, strong person too, you have no idea what she went through taking care of Dad all that time, dealing with it all, plus making sure everybody else was/is ok....Dunno if I've mentioned this or not, but Dad didn't pass away in the hospital, Mom wouldn't put him in one, she took care of him at home all that time (she knew he hated hospitals, & promised him to keep him at home...which she did...) But yeah, gonna go see Momma tomorrow, me & my big brother are gonna do a few things to help her out.... And, there's a couple "big" things we're gonna do when the weather breaks that both of us boys promised the old man we'd get done for him...While it's been really hard, it's getting better, a day at a time dude....Thanks....

I don't have a favorite. I really don't. They all do their things very well. I'm thrilled shitless with everything. But if it all had to go away and I could keep only one head and cab, I'd probably want the JVM and the A cab. For regular dinking around and pure versatility the JVM kills. I can go from sparkling clean surfabilly to way-too-much-gain metal tones with the push of a button. The JVM is a fantastic amp. Truly amazing. It sounds great at low volumes, it sounds great live and recorded. Killer amp, and I'm really glad to have it. So yeah, I guess the JVM is my favorite after all. The only thing I wish it did better is break up in the power section sooner, like a Plexi, but my negative feedback mod takes care of that if I want it. And it's ugly as shit with all those fucking knobs on the front, but it's an awesome amp.

The Plexi and 2204 have to be really loud to hit their sweet spots IMO. Even with the master volume mod, the Plexi still has to be really loud to sound right. I'm totally fine with that because I know they're not bedroom amps. I got them for their big rock and roll sound. But that also means they stay off most of the time when I'm just goofing around at home. And the 2204 is very interactive. You change one setting and it throws off everything else. It's kind of picky like that. You gotta dial it in and just leave it. But to my ears they both seem to work better in live situations than the JVM does for my kind of music. The JVM is almost too refined. The 2204 and Plexi are like, here I am motherfuckers.

Cool man, seems you like the JVM because it's so versatile....That's great you can get all those tones outta one amp dude, that's kinda what I'm after I suppose, one amp/box to do everything I want/need....Great setup you've got there.....I pulled your pics up & made the old lady look at 'em, then told her "this is an amp setup honey, 100w heads & 4x12 cabs....btw, he's sending all that shit to our house for a couple months for me to try out....be prepared"...LOL....she asked "I suppose those are really loud, right?"....and I told her "uuh, yeah, you'd better get some super-glue, nails & whatever else to keep all the shit on the walls when they arrive"....LOL....

On the amp switching thing, look at Radial products dude, there's a guy in the Marshall forum who's got a rack-mount thing, that switches between all his amps (7 total IIRC, on the Radial thing he's got)...Not sure if it switches between the cabs or not, but may be something to look into....Not sure on the price either...I'll do some digging & post if I find out anything....

 

[ocnor]

Does anyone already make something like this?

Cabbone Speaker Cabinet Switcher

Headbone Valve Tube Head Switcher

 

[Greg_L]

Wow, yeah I should have known that Radial made something like that. Too expensive. I'll just switch things manually.

 

[Greg_L]

Well, while I do really like the tones I've been getting lately with the DSL (I honestly haven't even turned the T15 on in a couple weeks...to me, the DSL kills it for the type of stuff I do....), I'd just like a different "flavor" if that makes any sense....That's why I think I'd be better off trying out some pedals (like the Hot Plexi from JOYO....it's supposed to be a clone of the Carl Martin Plexitone, & it's supposed to be damn close, at way over half the price....remember, I'm a cheap fucker....)...

I keep going back to the POD/X3L for different dirt tones, & yeah, the X3L's tones have that mid-range thing to 'em, but, they'd probably work in a mix, with my other tones....

Guess I'm over-thinking it again, wanting more gear....LOL...Honestly though, I think there was something wrong with the Blackstar amp I had, it just didn't sound "right" to me, the treble knob didn't make a lot of difference like the DSL's does, & the ISF knob did change the tone a little, but not night/day like everyone (including Blackstar) said it was supposed to...maybe I had a lemon, who knows....But, for $250 new, it could be another addition to my arsenal....I'm probably just over-thinking it again, & getting GAS for more shit....LOL....

My best bet (and cheapest) would probably get a couple/few of those JOYO pedals & try 'em out....For about $40/each, it wouldn't be much of a $$$ loss if they sucked/didn't work for me....

I suppose after all this rambling, the one tone I'm still after is a plexi-type thing, but at low volume...That's why I keep bringing up the JOYO/Carl Martin pedals...along with those Bogner stomps....Guess I'm just gonna have to keep dialing/tweaking with what I've got for now, those tones are probably in the gear I have now, I just need to find 'em (I did get pretty close to the VH I tone a while back...with a fuckin' ampsim....LOL)....

I've actually heard good things about those cheapo chinese joyo pedals. They'd probably fall apart with regular gig use, but in a studio environment they might last a long time. If you want a Plexi-ish tone at low volume, investigate the Class 5. I bet someone at that sorry ass Marshall forum can provide a soundclip of one sounding good. I didn't like the Class 5 at first, but I've really come around on them, and hit one with a pedal and they sound really good to me. It's a shame Marshall discontinued that model. They need a good speaker though. The combo versions suck. The head into a good cab sounds great. There's absolutely no way you can do it with a real Plexi without blowing your house apart and/or making your wife leave you. There are not enough mods or attenuators in the world to make that happen. If she thinks your 1 watter is loud.......

 

[minerman]

I've actually heard good things about those cheapo chinese joyo pedals. They'd probably fall apart with regular gig use, but in a studio environment they might last a long time.

I'm still doing some digging on those, watching comparison vids & shit like that, most likely, I'll order a couple of 'em to try...Like I've mentioned, for $40 a pop, even if I don't like 'em, it ain't gonna be much $$$ to spend....remember, I'm a cheap fucker.... Watching those comparison vids, they're pretty close in sound, so much that most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference...And, with the tiny difference in sound, the big difference in price would probably make up for it...
(Carl Martin Plexitone = $180 - JOYO Hot Plexi = $50..... Suhr Riot = $200 - JOYO US Dream = $40)....

If you want a Plexi-ish tone at low volume, investigate the Class 5. I bet someone at that sorry ass Marshall forum can provide a soundclip of one sounding good. I didn't like the Class 5 at first, but I've really come around on them, and hit one with a pedal and they sound really good to me. It's a shame Marshall discontinued that model. They need a good speaker though. The combo versions suck. The head into a good cab sounds great.

I almost bought a Class 5 head when I got the Tweaker, but opted for the extra tones the T15 has over the "one-trick" thing the Class 5 has....I have heard a few clips of the Class 5 sounding pretty good, but to me, it still ain't a plexi dude....IMHO, the closest thing I've heard to a plexi in low-wattage is the 1w JMP, but the guy who made the clip makes all his amps sound stellar...He's got all 5 of the 1 watters, & he's the reason I chose the C1 mic to be honest....Maybe I can save up a little more, & find a 1w JMP....there are a couple more low watt amps that sound like a plexi, but fuck if they ain't expensive, like the Friedman Pink Taco (20w, hand wired, fx loop, basically a low watt, hot-rodded plexi.....), are you ready???? $1500.....There's also a guy in the Marshall forum who builds amps (not Billy Blades btw....LOL, I wouldn't buy a fuckin' thing from that guy....), that could probably build the exact same thing for a lot less (I'm guessing on this though...)...so there are options out there, but they're fuckin' expensive....Probably too expensive for me anyway, I mean for a fucking 20w amp $1500??? Not unless I come into a bunch of $$$, which probably ain't gonna happen...

There's absolutely no way you can do it with a real Plexi without blowing your house apart and/or making your wife leave you. There are not enough mods or attenuators in the world to make that happen. If she thinks your 1 watter is loud.......

Yeah dude, the DSL-1 is roughly about half the volume of the Tweaker, & it drives her up the wall when I don't use the ISO cab, she'd have a fuckin' stroke if I ever brought anything home that did rock, LOL...FWIW, I read somewhere that the Tweaker while rated at 15w is actually putting out closer to 35-36w when cranked, dunno how true that is, but, I do know for a 15w amp, it's pretty loud, & the 'lil Marshall is roughly half of the T15's volume....If I ever get the chance, I'm gonna show her what a real amp sounds like cranked...Sure, she used to go to gigs with me years ago, but it wasn't in the other room, 15 feet away in our house....LOL....

 

[Greg_L]

When I got that Diamond Assassin 18w head, they also said "it's more like 39 watts". I don't see how as two EL84s are rated for 18 watts, but the Diamond guys said the same thing. I don't understand how they figure that stuff. There must be something more to it than just the ratings of the power tubes. Like a 1959 is capable of kicking out more than 100 watts, some have been measured at 130-150 watts. Whatever. I do know this though, that little Diamond bastard was loud as shit for *only* 18 watts. When we used it at band practice it more than held it's own and didn't have to be cranked to get loud enough. It was a neat little amp, it just wasn't the right sound for me. It was like....too modern, too Mesa like. It's basic sound reminded me of a Dual Rec. That's not a bad thing, it just wasn't the right sound for me. I gave it a shot. I sold it for more than I paid for it. It got me started into buying my own stuff and not borrowing shit anymore. It also confirmed that big full-power Marshalls are what I need. Now I'm in deep......

Look, this is what started me off....


Now I'm here.....

 

[minerman]

Yeah dude, I don't know how they rate/figure/whatever, but the Tweaker is supposed to be pushing out like 35-36w, & it's only rated at 15w....Honestly, don't know, & don't care...LOL...I just know it's a cool little amp, with some pretty cool vintage-y tones that I like....The DSL-1 is about the opposite of it, while it can get the classic rock tones, it's a bit more modern sounding, but still kinda vintage-y for 2014 I suppose....Again, whatever, I like 'em both, but if I had to choose right now, I'd send the Tweaker packing in a heartbeat, the DSL-1 is that good to me....

When I get back from Mom's in a couple/few hours, I think I'm gonna pull the DSL apart again, & do some tube rolling with those Tung-Sol tubes....I remember them shaving the top end off quite a bit with the Ibanez, so maybe it'll tame the high end with the LP a little....I'm really not looking for much, just to tame it a little....Should work out pretty good, IIRC that is....LOL....

Cool to see what you started with, & what you have now Greg, I'm really happy that you're getting the gear & tones you've been after all this time....I am too, to a point, but like always, the tone chase never ends, I just get satisfied for a little while, & always want something else/better/different...LOL....

If/when we ever buy another house, then I'll probably get into the bigger amps, but for now, these 'lil ones are the ticket, I've finally got to the point that I can dial 'em in, & feel like my tones can halfway keep up with the big amps, but it's took me a long time to learn how to do it...Wanna say thanks to you & everybody else here who's helped me along the way....Of course, the tone chase is still on, & won't ever end, but for now, with the gear I have, I'm actually pretty happy with the tones I can record....

Off to Mom's for a few hours, but I'll be back, & will most likely post some tones after I do some tube rolling.....

 

[Lt. Bob]

2 EL84's can't put out 35-40 watts so they can say whatever the hell they want.

But a 15 watt tube amp is pretty damned loud.

 

[Greg_L]

Could they be figuring the phase inverter tube or something?

 

[Lt. Bob]

Could they be figuring the phase inverter tube or something?

they could be measuring it at 40% distortion or something like that.

Or they could just be lying.


My Ampeg GVT-5H is a 5 watt amp ....... MAYBE 8 watts out of a single 6V6 but that's about it.
Yet it gets loud enough to rehearse with even though my other 5 watters do not.
I attribute that to headroom ...... if an amp has a lot of headroom it will be perceived as louder since distortion always includes compression.

And the speaker can be a big factor ...... if one speaker has a 96db rating and another has a 100db rating the higher rated speaker will sound almost twice as loud with the same wattage amp.

 

[Greg_L]

Right I get all that. I'm just wondering if they're actually figuring something into their measurements besides the power tubes and bullshit. I don't even care. I didn't get that 18w head because I thought it was actually 39 watts. I didn't hear about that until after I had it.

I do know this - that 18w Assassin sure seemed way fucking louder than the "Green" TH30 I had in here.