The New Tone Thread

[minerman]

Sam, as long as you have the files you want/need backed up, & have the software (daw, plug-ins, etc.) on a disk/hard drive, you should be good to go, except for installing everything over again. I need to re-load my pc, but it takes me a whole day to get it all squared away with the amount of plug-ins I have (mostly vsti drum libraries, that seem to take forever to install.....)...But the last time I did a re-load, I didn't install a lot of things, & I'm thinking next time around will be even less......

Good luck dude, I feel your pain on the re-load, but when you get it done, your pc should run like it did when it was brand new.....

 

[Telegram Sam]

It's prolly a good thing, I've been so sidetracked with work for the past six months it will make me look at what I have and speed up the relearning process.

 

[Lt. Bob]

I'm SO glad I do basically nothing on a 'puter! ..... er, ah .... I mean I feel your pain! (psssst ...... he really doesn't ..... what is this vst you speak of?)

Please don't answer .... it's a joke ........ I know what vsts are ........ I just don't use them because I do nothing on a 'puter except check on forums and order stuff.

But I'm sorry you're having problems ...... I know that 'losing everything you have because it's on a 'puter' thing is a PIA.
Not that I've experienced it mind you ..... but I have read about it many, many times from people who DO use 'puters for their music stuff. Although they're all quick to tell me it's not a problem ..... well, except for the many, many people I've seen post about it being a problem.

We neanderthals don't have that particular problem.

 

[Telegram Sam]

Here's some tones.

 

[Greg_L]

I'm SO glad I do basically nothing on a 'puter! ..... er, ah .... I mean I feel your pain! (psssst ...... he really doesn't ..... what is this vst you speak of?)

Please don't answer .... it's a joke ........ I know what vsts are ........ I just don't use them because I do nothing on a 'puter except check on forums and order stuff.

But I'm sorry you're having problems ...... I know that 'losing everything you have because it's on a 'puter' thing is a PIA.
Not that I've experienced it mind you ..... but I have read about it many, many times from people who DO use 'puters for their music stuff. Although they're all quick to tell me it's not a problem ..... well, except for the many, many people I've seen post about it being a problem.

We neanderthals don't have that particular problem.

I think the positives of digital recording on a computer outweigh the negatives. It is like living on the edge of a cliff overlooking a beautiful natural landscape. Your house can collapse into the abyss at any moment, but while it's there, it's wonderful. That's why backing shit up is of the utmost importance. As soon as I finish something, get some new plug-ins, whatever, it gets backed up. There is nothing important or irreplaceable on my computer. It could crash right now and I wouldn't lose anything significant. That's how you gotta do it. Back your shit up and a crash will be a headache, but not a real disaster. I've crashed 3 or 4 times. It sucks, but I was back up and running pretty easily.

 

[Lt. Bob]

I think the positives of digital recording on a computer outweigh the negatives. It is like living on the edge of a cliff overlooking a beautiful natural landscape. Your house can collapse into the abyss at any moment, but while it's there, it's wonderful. That's why backing shit up is of the utmost importance. As soon as I finish something, get some new plug-ins, whatever, it gets backed up. There is nothing important or irreplaceable on my computer. It could crash right now and I wouldn't lose anything significant. That's how you gotta do it. Back your shit up and a crash will be a headache, but not a real disaster. I've crashed 3 or 4 times. It sucks, but I was back up and running pretty easily.

I get your point but I don't really see any advantages over the way I do it .... a standalone digital recorder with minimal editing capability ( enough to cut and paste and that's about it) and a rack full of outboard gear.
There's not much you can do that I can't.

 

[Greg_L]

I get your point but I don't really see any advantages over the way I do it .... a standalone digital recorder with minimal editing capability ( enough to cut and paste and that's about it) and a rack full of outboard gear.
There's not much you can do that I can't.

Probably not me personally, no, but if someone wants to really explore the possibilities of recorded sound, a DAW, plug-ins, and a tough computer will blow away a standalone unit and outboard gear. It all depends on what your end-game is. I don't think any one method is better than another overall, they just do different things. But for pure flexibility, the DAW and plug-ins is pretty hard to beat.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Probably not me personally, no, but if someone wants to really explore the possibilities of recorded sound, a DAW, plug-ins, and a tough computer will blow away a standalone unit and outboard gear. It all depends on what your end-game is. I don't think any one method is better than another overall, they just do different things. But for pure flexibility, the DAW and plug-ins is pretty hard to beat.

maybe but big time studios don't often simply use a DAW with plug ins. Virtually all of them use the puter as a standalone recorder (which is what i do) and use racks of outboard gear. Must be a reason for that.
For one thing I have WAY greater and easier patching ability than someone with a DAW has.

 

[miroslav]

IMHO....the strongest feature of digital/computer audio recording is the ability to edit/comp/manipulate it at will.
Granted, for many, ITB recording also creates a virtual studio environment if that's how you like to roll...but at the most basic level, the editing is what a computer brings to the table over standalone recorders.

I still track to analog tape, then dump to the DAW, and then mix back out of the DAW...so for me the DAW is used for it's basic editing/comping strong point, and everything else happens before and after the DAW. If I had to forgo the DAW, it wouldn't upset my SOP a whole lot, rather it just requires a bit more pre-production planning and better focus/attention during tracking if a DAW wasn't part of the SOP to do edits/comps with.
Still, I use the DAW as much as my non-DAW gear....and I backup everything at least 2-3 times, so any DAW crisis is more of a PITA rather than a loss of content.

I also skip the DAW altogether at times, and just roll with the tape tracks and mix right off the deck. Depends on the song/tracks and how much I need to do with them beyond what's already on tape.

Not sure why some people have nightmare-ish experiences with computers though....they really can be pretty stable if configured and used within their operating capability.

 

[antichef]

Cool sound antichef, vintage vibe happenin' there man, more of a Hendrix type sound to my ears.....would work well in a mix IMHO, especially for a lead tone, splashed with a little 'verb & delay, would sound great....

On the Greenback thing, you can buy the cab I have for $300 new, Randall RV112GB Guitar Speaker Cabinet at AMS It's the Chineese Greenback, & I've heard different opinions going either way, some say there's no difference & some say there's a big difference between the speaker I have & the one that's made in England, myself, I really don't care as I'm not a "cork sniffer/tone snob", I just wanted a GB to add to my "arsenal" of tones, & can definitely tell a difference between the two I currently have.....

Thanks! I'm in an early '70s protopunk cover band, and I'm going for over-the-top. I just ran upstairs with a screwdriver to take the back off this Randall cab that I have, but it only had Randall speakers in it. I'll check that other one out - I got nothin' against Chinese stuff if it's good, and some of it is getting good.

Wow, that's pretty thick and wild. It's definitely got a certain "vibe" to it. I can't say that it's a tone I'd get into, but it's pretty cool. How's the Marshall?

Marshall is back in the shop - I accidentally left it on standby overnight, and it had this god-awful hum going on in the morning. Tech thinks its the power filter caps, and also that their depletion may be causing my bass frequency woes - bass requires the most juice, and if they aren't charging up right, then the bass goes anemic first. As far as I know they're original, so it would be no surprise if they're hurting.

It is like living on the edge of a cliff overlooking a beautiful natural landscape. Your house can collapse into the abyss at any moment, but while it's there, it's wonderful.

I'm so using that. Up in Nebraska/Iowa, the newly rich would sometimes build fancy houses on the top of bluffs overlooking the Missouri river - they got a great view and relative isolation - wonder why there weren't any other houses up there? Two or three years later, they came to grips with the fact that the bluffs are made of blown dirt, and they got a free elevator ride down to the river. But, yeah, with backup, it's all good

 

[Jonesey9]

maybe but big time studios don't often simply use a DAW with plug ins. Virtually all of them use the puter as a standalone recorder (which is what i do) and use racks of outboard gear. Must be a reason for that.
For one thing I have WAY greater and easier patching ability than someone with a DAW has.

For me, I love having the ability to pull up a project I worked on a year ago and have every single parameter exactly where it was when I left it.

 

[Greg_L]

maybe but big time studios don't often simply use a DAW with plug ins. Virtually all of them use the puter as a standalone recorder (which is what i do) and use racks of outboard gear. Must be a reason for that.
For one thing I have WAY greater and easier patching ability than someone with a DAW has.

Sorry man, but you don't. Some of the lower end DAWs are limited, but have you ever looked at the routing capability of Reaper? I can literally send, receive, side-chain, etc anything to anything as much as I want. Not one single limitation. I can automate and process stuff until my computer melts down if I wanted to. I can make the kick drum trigger bigger reverb on the bass guitar and then send that into 50 flangers and then pan them all over the place if I want to. It's truly limitless. It takes a few clicks of the mouse and not one single cable. Good DAWs are so advanced now that the real skill lies in using restraint.

As for pro studios, yeah they got everything. Many big-time studios also heavily rely on Pro-Tools and Waves plugs too. They have the budget and the space to do so. Do you ever read TapeOp? 90% of the time that outboard gear is there to A) sell time to bands because it looks professional, and B) because old-school guys just like it. Why else do studios brag about their gear selection? It gets people in the door. Hip-hop "artists" (I use that term loosely) are drawn to gear and software like moths to a flame. A lot of rappers and indie bands choose a studio simply based on what gear they have because they think they're supposed to. Rappers love a full pro-tools suite, indie guys think everything has to be done through vintage equipment. It's all smoke and mirrors. A good band with a good engineer will sound good no matter how it's recorded. Sure that outboard stuff sounds awesome, but as for the guys running things, in almost every interview with every producer and/or engineer, they like that outboard gear simply because they're familiar with it. They're comfortable with it and they know what to expect out of it. There's nothing at all wrong with that line of thinking. It's no different than having a trusty guitar or amp or snare drum. But that's how it is most of the time with those guys. Plug-ins now are a lot like amp modellers - some of them are scary good.

 

[Greg_L]

Marshall is back in the shop - I accidentally left it on standby overnight, and it had this god-awful hum going on in the morning. Tech thinks its the power filter caps, and also that their depletion may be causing my bass frequency woes - bass requires the most juice, and if they aren't charging up right, then the bass goes anemic first. As far as I know they're original, so it would be no surprise if they're hurting.

Yeah I'm no tech by any means, but it's often said that filter caps have a life of about 20 years. If yours were original, then if that's true they're about double their time past due. Changing them can't hurt.

 

[Lt. Bob]

For me, I love having the ability to pull up a project I worked on a year ago and have every single parameter exactly where it was when I left it.

That's very clearly an advantage.
But for me that doesn't outweigh my advantage in patching capabilities since I often do some pretty weird patchings.

So like all things it just comes down to personal preference. Depending on what you want or what you do one or the other might be best for you.
For me the parameter thing, while a great plus for DAWs and a good point is completely and totally without any use whatsoever since there's zero chance that I'd ever pull up something I worked on a year ago unless I wanted to do it all over and differently in which case I wouldn't even want the original parameters.
But that's me and the way I do things.

And let me be very clear on something.
Often on the boards if someone isn't convinced that a particular method or piece of gear is better, that gets interpreted as being against it.
Are you guys against my hardware preference? I don't think you are although it's sorta coming across that way.
I get as good recordings as anyone else here so i'm not really missing anything AFAIC.

And I'm NOT against DAWs and/or plug-ins.

For one thing I think it costs a LOT more to go the hardware route ..... right off the bat that's a deal breaker for most of us. The only reason I have all that crap is 45 years of recording and keeping everything I bought that was good.
If someone broke in and stole it all I'd immediately go the DAW route if only because of cost.
Just like if someone stole my huge vinyl collection I'd be done with it even though I prefer the sound. Just don't have the money so all digital i would go.

So I'm NOT suggesting that anyone should get rid of their DAW and go hardware.
But for simply recording music and getting a good mix no one has ever made a strong case that I could do that any better by getting rid of all my stuff and going DAW.
I don't need automation for instance .... are there times when it might be easier ? ..... sure. But I'm used to grabbing a bunch of knobs and getting the tweaks in at the right spots even if it takes a few times ..... no big deal ...... I've done it a very long time.
Just as the Gibson robot guitar might have some legitimate uses, I'm personally missing nothing by not having one.

There are pros and cons to everything.

 

[Telegram Sam]

My recording studio has to fit on my coffee table and be put away when I'm not using it.
OK, I lie, I have a pair of Tablemates that I use. Everything just slides under couch when it is not being used.
Everything is routed through the Axe FX II D/A on the end table and gets mixed on my living room stereo speakers.
The DAW is on a Republic of Gamers G73sw Laptop with dual 500G internal drives.
I woudn't even be able to fuck around with this stuff if it wasn't for the digital revolution
which is why I got back into the Hobby in the first place.

I agree with Miro and Greg, its an inconvenience that my system was compromised,
but I did have Everything (~750G of data) backed up, so all I have to do is reinstall and deal with
licensing, upgrades, etc. in order to get back up and running.

I'm just waiting for my IT guy to get back in town next week,
he trades out the labor for free, and I can't get past the first
screen when trying to reinstall W7 myself, my PC is truly fucked.

 

[Greg_L]

Are you guys against my hardware preference? .

No, not at all. Not even in the slightest. Me personally, I'm not trying to talk you out of anything or change your ways. I know you rock your shit well. But everything that you love about your standalone+hardware has been met, and frankly, exceeded by modern DAW's and plug-ins. That's not to say the DAW route is better for you. What's better for is whatever you like to use. I also know that you don't need all the bells-and-whistles. I don't either. I use my setup at about 5% of it's capability. Lol. I do think though that you'd like a good DAW if you gave it a good chance. The learning curve takes a little time, but once you get it, the workflow is very fast, easy, and efficient.

 

[Lt. Bob]

No, not at all. Not even in the slightest. Me personally, I'm not trying to talk you out of anything or change your ways. I know you rock your shit well. But everything that you love about your standalone+hardware has been met, and frankly, exceeded by modern DAW's and plug-ins. That's not to say the DAW route is better for you. What's better for is whatever you like to use. I also know that you don't need all the bells-and-whistles. I don't either. I use my setup at about 5% of it's capability. Lol. I do think though that you'd like a good DAW if you gave it a good chance. The learning curve takes a little time, but once you get it, the workflow is very fast, easy, and efficient.

I actually doubt I'd have much trouble with the learning curve. Everything I've ever read about it seems pretty straightforward. None of it is THAT much different than just using a reel to reel. It's all about mic placement and pressing record.
And I'm sure I'd really like a good DAW with Reaper. I actually have a slightly older PC which I've considered installing Reaper in.

And I don't doubt the quality ..... I'm sure you remember me saying several times that modern ampsims absolutely can take the place of real amps. And I hear first rate sounds right here on HR. There's no doubt that you can do the best of the best with a DAW.
Although in some instances I've heard the exact opposite from some studios .... that they have pro tools because the public wants it and prefer their hardware. There's a reason studios pay big dollars for some of this stuff and in a pro tools world I don't believe it's always for show.

But the real issue is that I have what I have and I don't have to spend a cent which, since I don't have any money, is a good thing.

For me it's really all about money. If I were back in BR where I was rolling in money I'd have all my current gear AND a good DAW with a buttload of plug-ins!

You can't have too much stuff in my opinion!

 

[minerman]

Good discussion guys,
For me, the pc/daw is the only way to go. After recording for about 4 years now, I've learned a lot that I probably wouldn't any other way. I did start my recording journey on a Zoom HD 8 track recorder. I had the HD 8, a Line 6 Spider Valve, Samson condensor mic, & my Strat. The biggest reason I switched to the pc was the drum vsti/programming. The HD 8's drum sounds were terrible IMHO, & was very, very frustrating to program to say the least.

The post that mentioned editing is really the only advantage of pc/daw is pretty spot-on, although the HD 8 did have that capability, it's a lot easier to actually see the waveform when cutting/pasting/etc....for me anyway......

There's nothing wrong with hardware or using a pc, whatever gets you there is really all that matters, but I do have to admit, I'd never gotten as far as I am now if I'd kept using the Zoom HD 8, for some the stand-alone recorders are great, but I'd have to say the pc/daw route is far easier for me......

 

[Lt. Bob]

There's nothing wrong with hardware or using a pc, whatever gets you there is really all that matters, but I do have to admit, I'd never gotten as far as I am now if I'd kept using the Zoom HD 8, for some the stand-alone recorders are great, but I'd have to say the pc/daw route is far easier for me......

hmmmm ..... I guess I should explain that in my case when I say stand alone I'm NOT talking about something like a HD8 or Tascam neo 2488 or anything like that.
I'm talking about a digital recorder which is essentially the same thing as a reel to reel only digital like a Mackie HD2496 or an Alesis HD24.
It records and does nothing else. And even then it has 24 line-ins and outs and if you don't hook up a mixer it won't do anything.
Something like this:

Tascam MX 2424 SE Pro Digital Multi Track Recorder Special Edition w If TD24 410000151716 | eBay

I'm specifically NOT talking about ANYthing that has built in mixing or effects or really, built in anything.
In my case when i say standalone it's a unit that records and does nothing else.
So just like a reel to reel EVERYthing else has to be added.
You HAVE to have a board and whatever effects you want have to be another unit and so on.
Usually they do have extremely limited editing capability but nothing like a DAW or even like that Zoom unit.
I personally have a couple of Fostex D1624s.

I actually have a few all in one boxes like the Zoom although older and probably not as good .... a Fostex MR8-HD ...... a Roland 1880 and something else.
I have personally found them to be horrid. The effects are pretty close to useless for one thing.

So when i talk about using a standalone I'm talking essentially the exact same set up as you would use for a reel to reel excpet that the actual recording media is digital.

 

[minerman]

OK Bob, I thought you were referring to an "all in one" thing like the HD 8......that does make a difference, but again, as long as you get the results you're after, it doesn't matter what you use to get there....

The HD 8 had some decent effects, but honestly, they were not even close to a lot of things I have on my pc/daw now. I don't regret getting rid of the Zoom recorder at all, the only thing out of the first "batch" of my recording gear I wish I still had is the Line 6 tube amp. I know it gets bashed by a lot of people, but it actually sounded decent, with lots of different/versatile sounds. It even had 2 V30's in it. I'd like to have it now, since I've learned so much about recording, just to see what kind of different tones I could get with it......