The New Tone Thread

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Greg_L said:
What if I just take 4 speakers, put them in a square box, and set the amp head on top? Will that work?
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I'm thinking...how about taking a 112 guitar cab...removing the speaker...then stretching a drum head across the opening...and using that as a "cab drum"...will that work???
If you get one of those convertible cabs, you can either have the back panel on for a closed, tight sound...or you remove the back panel for a more open, loose sound.

Imagine if someone actually did that, and then they set up a booth next to the guy with the "drum cab" booth.
I bet it would be a head-turner at NAMM! :D


Hey...good luck to him, I hope he makes a million off that drum cab idea!
 
Greg_L said:
What if I just take 4 speakers, put them in a square box, and set the amp head on top? Will that work?
Click to expand...

No..most recording guru's will tell you..when micing a 4x12 cab there is no reason for the other 3 speaker to be on..during the Jimi days it was cool to hear 4 times the signal and still is..

but when you mic a 4x12 cab your micing a big 130 lb 1x12 cab with 3 other speakers in it...lol...

Its called phasing..when your mic or ears pick up the same sound at different times...the only way to get rid of it is to shut down all the speakers other then the mic'ed speaker..

and we can forget the room inside the box..your speaker is paper and the mic hears the echoes off the corners and the walls.....so no you cant use a box with more then 1 speaker in it..
 
joeydahlia said:
No..most recording guru's will tell you..when micing a 4x12 cab there is no reason for the other 3 speaker to be on..during the Jimi days it was cool to hear 4 times the signal and still is..

but when you mic a 4x12 cab your micing a big 130 lb 1x12 cab with 3 other speakers in it...lol...

Its called phasing..when your mic or ears pick up the same sound at different times...the only way to get rid of it is to shut down all the speakers other then the mic'ed speaker..

and we can forget the room inside the box..your speaker is paper and the mic hears the echoes off the corners and the walls.....so no you cant use a box with more then 1 speaker in it..
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Your product is a great concept - I feel that it is geared more for recording. Has anyone used it live? And what were their thoughts.
 
the cabinet has a very significant role in how a speaker sounds and even effects the impedance curve of the speaker.
For example in a bass reflex cab at the tuning frequency the back pressure holds the cone stationary causing a big change in the impedance.

So using drum shells as cabs is absolutely gonna have it's own sound. Good or not is up to whoever tries it but definitely an interesting idea.

let's not give inaccurate info though ..... you don't get anything but VERY tiny phase issues from the other three speakers when you're close mic'ing since the sound of the speaker you have the mic on is gonna completely overwhelm any sound coming from the other three. It's not quite the same as them getting out to your ears.

Basically at any decent volume the mic simply doesn't even 'hear' the other speakers.

Further there are umpty-zillion recordings of 4x12 cans that aren't even slightly muddy or phasey.
 
joeydahlia said:
but when you mic a 4x12 cab your micing a big 130 lb 1x12 cab with 3 other speakers in it...lol...
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Yeah...but that's the point, having a big cab with some heft to it has a direct impact on the sound...otherwise, a small 112 cab would sound the same as a 412 cab...but just "4 times the signal"....but they don't sound the same.

FYI...I think someone else had the same idea already:

Triska - Speaker Building Project at Parts Express

Of course...there may be a reason why speaker cabs have been done in rectangular shapes all these years....just sayin.... :)
 
miroslav said:
Yeah...but that's the point, having a big cab with some heft to it has a direct impact on the sound...otherwise, a small 112 cab would sound the same as a 412 cab...but just "4 times the signal"....but they don't sound the same.

FYI...I think someone else had the same idea already:

Triska - Speaker Building Project at Parts Express

Of course...there may be a reason why speaker cabs have been done in rectangular shapes all these years....just sayin.... :)
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That looks more like just round cabs..
ours are made for guitar and bass...

also you can adjust the volume inside each cab...

open or closed and also have a soundless port as well..
 
Lt. Bob said:
So using drum shells as cabs is absolutely gonna have it's own sound. Good or not is up to whoever tries it but definitely an interesting idea.
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Right....and you can stick a speaker in just about any kind of enclosure and get a different sound, and in some instances it might sound pretty good...but I think in the end, a well *designed* cab is just that...a well designed cab specific for a certain speaker/sound/purpose.
Few cab builders have deviated from the rectangular design. I mean, most good cab designers know what they are doing, so there must be a reason why they stick to certain designs over and over.....
 
joeydahlia said:
That looks more like just round cabs..
ours are made for guitar and bass...

also you can adjust the volume inside each cab...

open or closed and also have a soundless port as well..
Click to expand...
let me be clear and repeat myself ..... I think it's an interesting idea that might have some merit. I'm not against the idea and am curious about it to be honest.

But you're not adjusting the volume by sticking more or less damping material in the shell ..... you're simply adjusting the amount of damping in the cab. That speaker is gonna produce the same amount of volume either way ..... you're only adjusting the tonality.And that's cool to be able to do that but it doesn't "adjust the volume level to match your amp's wattage."
 
miroslav said:
Right....and you can stick a speaker in just about any kind of enclosure and get a different sound, and in some instances it might sound pretty good...but I think in the end, a well *designed* cab is just that...a well designed cab specific for a certain speaker/sound/purpose.
Few cab builders have deviated from the rectangular design. I mean, most good cab designers know what they are doing, so there must be a reason why they stick to certain designs over and over.....
Click to expand...

But KlOpS does not create any sound at all you only hear whats coming off the speaker...
 
Not to mention that matching the power handling capability of the speakers to the output of the amp is important. There aren't many single 12" speakers that can handle 100w of tube amp roar. A 4x12 Greenback cab is generally rated at 100w handling capability. 25w per speaker. What if my amp is 30, 50, or 100w? Unless I got this all wrong, I'm gonna need more than one speaker. What's a guy supposed to do about that? Wait, I know, use a cab with more than one speaker. Or I can just play the amp very quietly, and that aint gonna happen. :D
 
joeydahlia said:
That looks more like just round cabs..
ours are made for guitar and bass...

also you can adjust the volume inside each cab...

open or closed and also have a soundless port as well..
Click to expand...

Good luck with it. I hope you make a hit at NAMM.
Nothing wrong with being innovative...if it works out for you.
 
Lt. Bob said:
let me be clear and repeat myself ..... I think it's an interesting idea that might have some merit. I'm not against the idea and am curious about it to be honest.

But you're not adjusting the volume by sticking more or less damping material in the shell ..... you're simply adjusting the amount of damping in the cab. That speaker is gonna produce the same amount of volume either way ..... you're only adjusting the tonality.And that's cool to be able to do that but it doesn't "adjust the volume level to match your amp's wattage."
Click to expand...

they are the only cabs in the world that do that...

if you have a 5 watt head or a 120 watt head you can now have a cab that can adjust to your amp ...so I think we are almost on the same page...lol
 
miroslav said:
Right....and you can stick a speaker in just about any kind of enclosure and get a different sound, and in some instances it might sound pretty good...but I think in the end, a well *designed* cab is just that...a well designed cab specific for a certain speaker/sound/purpose.
Few cab builders have deviated from the rectangular design. I mean, most good cab designers know what they are doing, so there must be a reason why they stick to certain designs over and over.....
Click to expand...
well ..... manufacturing is definitely a factor.

MUCH easier to build a rectangular cab.
Much more expensive to build circular.
And if you really want to see what's what in cabinet design the place to look is audiophile territory.
And in the very most expensive speakers ( I'm talking 50 grand and up) it's pretty common to not have a rectangular cab necause of some of the things that Joet is talking about ... standing waves and such.

So for guitars I think the main reason virtually ALL cabs are squareish is gonna be the expense of building something other than that in large quantities.
 
joeydahlia said:
they are the only cabs in the world that do that...

if you have a 5 watt head or a 120 watt head you can now have a cab that can adjust to your amp ...so I think we are almost on the same page...lol
Click to expand...

How does your product make one single 20-25w speaker handle 120w of amp? :confused:
 
Greg_L said:
Not to mention that matching the power handling capability of the speakers to the output of the amp is important. There aren't many single 12" speakers that can handle 100w of tube amp roar. A 4x12 Greenback cab is generally rated at 100w handling capability. 25w per speaker. What if my amp is 30, 50, or 100w? Unless I got this all wrong, I'm gonna need more than one speaker. What's a guy supposed to do about that? Wait, I know, use a cab with more than one speaker. Or I can just play the amp very quietly, and that aint gonna happen. :D
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Um a 1x12 has the same volume of a 4x12 ...I dont get what ya mean..sorry..my k100 can put out the same volume as 4 k100's..so we are almost on the same page...lol
 
joeydahlia said:
they are the only cabs in the world that do that...

if you have a 5 watt head or a 120 watt head you can now have a cab that can adjust to your amp ...
Click to expand...
no .... I'm not seeing that ....... if I use a 120 watt speaker it won't get into it's sweet spot with a 5 watt amp and if I use a 25 watt speaker it will blow up if I use a 120 watt amp. I don't agree with you on that.
 
joeydahlia said:
But KlOpS does not create any sound at all you only hear whats coming off the speaker...
Click to expand...

OK...but as has been mentioned...for most people, the sound IS about speaker & cab.

I mean, why mount it in a drum shell then...why not then hang it in air with wires and no enclosure?

You could use some other types of enclosures and make it 100% dead and non-interactive...though I think ANY enclosure you place a speaker in...WILL have some effect on the speaker. It will load the speaker even if the enclosure itself doesn't resonate.
 
Greg_L said:
How does your product make one single 20-25w speaker handle 120w of amp? :confused:
Click to expand...

I did last summers Namm with a 1x12 vintage 30 and got 100% feedback...and that was 13,000 people...lol so a 1x12 is plenty..

if you want 4 times the signal well then you have to separate the speakers...independent cabs sorry..
 
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