The New Tone Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Telegram Sam
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they didn't do any research I imagine.
They already had their own 'builder mentality' thing going on as to how they would want their own amps and went that way.

You work on cars ...... prolly the same sorta thing with car rebuilds.
No one but the owner who wants it to be factory correct is gonna be as engrossed in the minutiae that will make it so.
 
they didn't do any research I imagine.
They already had their own 'builder mentality' thing going on as to how they would want their own amps and went that way.

You work on cars ...... prolly the same sorta thing with car rebuilds.
No one but the owner who wants it to be factory correct is gonna be as engrossed in the minutiae that will make it so.
I guess so. I specifically said it both guys though...."I want this thing exactly as it left the Marshall factory". My guess is that since it worked they didn't worry too much about it. Had it been completely broken they would have had to do some work with it. Fuckers.

Nice one Greg. DIY FTW.
Thanks dude. :)
 
Nice one Greg. I like to make and fix stuff myself where time and equipment allow. Props to you for bothering, although it sounds like it's the only way to get to what you want (and even asked for!). Which amp is it you've been messing with? I've lost track of all your big Marshall heads and don't know much about them - is it the old JCM800 or the reissue one or a different one altogether?
 
Nice one Greg. I like to make and fix stuff myself where time and equipment allow. Props to you for bothering, although it sounds like it's the only way to get to what you want (and even asked for!). Which amp is it you've been messing with? I've lost track of all your big Marshall heads and don't know much about them - is it the old JCM800 or the reissue one or a different one altogether?

Thanks man. It's the 1979 JMP 2204. 50w master volume. These 70s JMP master volume amps became the 800s. Their circuits are identical until 1985. The only difference between the late 70s master volume JMPs and the early 800s are cosmetic.
 
That limiter protection device is ace. It'd have to be a big bulb in 240v Australia though.
Bummer about the techs not doing what was asked of them - not the 1st time though.
 
That limiter protection device is ace. It'd have to be a big bulb in 240v Australia though.
Bummer about the techs not doing what was asked of them - not the 1st time though.

Yeah the bulb thing is pretty cool. You can have a full-on short to ground and the bulb will light up before something melts down.I tested mine and it worked as it should, but it never came on with the amp plugged in, so I'm good to go!

Here's the first test with the refreshed amp. Had to try some AC/DC again. Not going for an exact copy, but in the ballpark is good enough for me. Tell me what you think.....

Les Paul Traditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge p/u
Marshall JMP 2204
Bass - 6
Mid - 5
Treb - 5.5
Presence - 5
Gain - 6
Master vol - 6
Marshall 1960a 4x12 - G12-65 - SM57 on axis, just outside dustcap, about 2" off grill
No EQ or effects in DAW

JMPCDC
 
Nice Greg, very articulate...Can you tell any difference in the sound & feel of the amp since you did the work to it??? FWIW, I thought it sounded tits to begin with, & to be honest, I can't tell much of a difference here, but, I don't hear it everyday/a lot like you do too....Sounds good man!!! To me, it's got that "dirty, but clean" thing going on, which is great....Sounds good dude, thanks for posting the work you did on the amp, & thanks for posting these "after" clips...

It's funny, I've actually been recording some guitars & bass today, & was about to post some of my shit tones...LOL...

Here's 2 guitars, panned out (if you listen close at the end, you can hear the drums from my 'phones coming through the p'up in my guitar....I do record at pretty high levels with my 'phones, & FWIW, every song I've tracked/recorded has done this...:))...There is a little eq & reverb on 'em, I just solo'd the 2 guitars & rendered the mp3:

LDO guitars

And here they are in a mix:

LDO mix

Signal chain & amp settings:

Ibanez RG (Duncan Custom Custom bridge p'up) > SD-1 > DSL-1 > T-75 > '57

SD-1:
Level: 10
Tone: 5
Drive: 0

DSL-1:
1w mode
Red Channel
Gain: 3
Vol: 10
Bass: 5
Mid: 2
Treble: 7
Deep: On
Mid Shift: Off
 
Nice Greg, very articulate...Can you tell any difference in the sound & feel of the amp since you did the work to it??? FWIW, I thought it sounded tits to begin with, & to be honest, I can't tell much of a difference here, but, I don't hear it everyday/a lot like you do too....Sounds good man!!! To me, it's got that "dirty, but clean" thing going on, which is great....Sounds good dude, thanks for posting the work you did on the amp, & thanks for posting these "after" clips...
Thanks a lot dude. Dirty but articulate is like my favorite kind of sound and one of my favorite aspects of Marshalls in general. I absolutely love it when you can hit a chord and it's big and huge and overdiven but you can still hear the notes. I love it when I can lighten up the picking and the amp calms down. So I'm glad I'm getting that with this amp now. It didn't do it very well before, and that was part of the reason I always suspected something was fishy. It never really sounded bad, but I always thought something was off. But yeah, I can tell a HUGE difference between before and after. It's like I got a new amp. Seriously. It's that different. I'm having to re-learn it. I'm not done either. I still have a few more things to tweak.

It's funny, I've actually been recording some guitars & bass today, & was about to post some of my shit tones...LOL...

Here's 2 guitars, panned out (if you listen close at the end, you can hear the drums from my 'phones coming through the p'up in my guitar....I do record at pretty high levels with my 'phones, & FWIW, every song I've tracked/recorded has done this...:))...There is a little eq & reverb on 'em, I just solo'd the 2 guitars & rendered the mp3:

LDO guitars

And here they are in a mix:

LDO mix

Signal chain & amp settings:

Ibanez RG (Duncan Custom Custom bridge p'up) > SD-1 > DSL-1 > T-75 > '57

SD-1:
Level: 10
Tone: 5
Drive: 0

DSL-1:
1w mode
Red Channel
Gain: 3
Vol: 10
Bass: 5
Mid: 2
Treble: 7
Deep: On
Mid Shift: Off

Those are pretty good on their own, but this is one of those instances in which the guitars lose something in the mix. They seem a little boxy next to the drums and bass. Kind of like the lows and highs have been rolled off. Did you do anything like that?
 
Thanks a lot dude. Dirty but articulate is like my favorite kind of sound and one of my favorite aspects of Marshalls in general. I absolutely love it when you can hit a chord and it's big and huge and overdiven but you can still hear the notes. I love it when I can lighten up the picking and the amp calms down. So I'm glad I'm getting that with this amp now. It didn't do it very well before, and that was part of the reason I always suspected something was fishy. It never really sounded bad, but I always thought something was off. But yeah, I can tell a HUGE difference between before and after. It's like I got a new amp. Seriously. It's that different. I'm having to re-learn it. I'm not done either. I still have a few more things to tweak.
That's great man, really happy you're getting your JMP lined out, but to be honest, I myself really can't tell a lot of difference in the before/after clips, I think all of 'em are the shizzle really....Dirty but articulate is the sound for rock guitar man, I'm getting closer, but still a way to go...LOL...Glad you're diggin' the amp dude, now, all you need is an 800 to complete the collection.....:).



Those are pretty good on their own, but this is one of those instances in which the guitars lose something in the mix. They seem a little boxy next to the drums and bass. Kind of like the lows and highs have been rolled off. Did you do anything like that?

Yeah, there's a hp/lp filters on the guitars, but, the eq is there on the solo'd clips too...I'm sure the drums & bass are taking away from 'em, "masking" is what it's called I guess...I'm guessing the cymbals are killing the highs, & the bass is doing the same to the low end/chunk...
Nothing that can't be fixed though, just gotta keep fuckin' with the mix to get it a little better...FWIW, I just slapped the hp/lp filters on the guitars & got the levels where I thought they were about right (the guitars are a little fizzy in the top end, & I put the hp on 'em to make room for the bass...guess like everything I do over here, I went overboard...:D)...Might do a little cut in the bass' low end (hp...just a little higher...or, lower the filter on the guitars or maybe even take it completely off...), & might add just a little high end to the guitars' eq...I'll play around with it tonight & see what I can come up with...I'm really diggin' the little amp though, especially with the T-75....It'd been over a week since I'd even turned the amp on, & it's been months since I've had the Ibanez out...Life's been fuckin' crazy for me the last few months man, seems as soon as I get almost over a hump in the road, something else knocks me back down....but, I keep gettin' up....;)

BTW, does the overall song sound any better than the last version you heard (drum & timing wise)???? This is the "Greg_L Franken-Kit" with the re-programmed drums....I've been fucking with the hi-hats mostly this week, messing with the different articulations & their levels (IE: a completely open hat would be just a little louder than a closed, & all the in-between sounds would be a little different volume-wise...I know there are a lot of variables, like how hard the hits are & such, but you get the idea I'm onto here...)...Correct me if I'm way off on this dude, if I'm on the right track, I may end up finishing a fuckin' song this year....LOL....Lemme know....

Again, your "new" amp sounds tits dude, I'd absolutely love to be able to use one here, but, it ain't happenin' right now, so, the low-watt thing will have to do....I will say that I'd take the low-watt & real speaker/mic over an ampsim anyday...It's not the recorded sound (as I'm pretty confident my ampsim tones are pretty decent...), but the feel too, it's just different, & I play different through either of my little amps...I'd go fuckin' bat-shit, silver-back gorilla crazy with a big amp......:).
 
Cool tone Greg. Def in the same stadium of ACDC - good Marshall tone - have you tried riffing All Right Now or something from Free? Kossoff was aearly King of the LP into Marshall uniterrupted tone.
Minerman - I noticed a diff between unmixed and mixed then read Greg's commentary.
Is there something the DAW did?
Just read your response to Greg so nothing in particular - H&L pass - really? I do the occasional notch but I don't do pass filters.
Interestingly enough I've found 2 mastering engineers who ask to have those things removed.
 
That's great man, really happy you're getting your JMP lined out, but to be honest, I myself really can't tell a lot of difference in the before/after clips, I think all of 'em are the shizzle really....Dirty but articulate is the sound for rock guitar man, I'm getting closer, but still a way to go...LOL...Glad you're diggin' the amp dude, now, all you need is an 800 to complete the collection.....:).
Yeah, dirty but articulate is the shit. AC/DC exemplifies that as good as anyone. I know they're probably not your thing, but check out the Ramones "Leave Home" album for a critical listen. Listen to the guitar tracks. That is classic punk rock guitar glory. If EVH's brown sound is the "holy grail" of hard rock/lead guitar tone, Johnny Ramone's early sound is the punk rock equivalent. He's hammering away barred powerchords into his Super Leads, but you can hear the notes. The chime is there. The high strings ring through the barrage of sound. It's amazing to me. I noticed it at 12 years old before I knew anything about guitars or amps. It still resonates with me.

I've been looking for 800s for sure. I've seen a few decent deals on the 800 reissue, but the originals are being valued really high these days. They're almost up there with Super Leads. The only original 800s that are still reasonably priced are the later horizontal input models, the 2205/2210s, or beaters and/or already modded models. I don't want any of that. I'd happily get a reissue for the right price, or it would have to be an early 80s vertical input 2203 model. I think I can relax now though because this 2204 has that sound now, like it's supposed to. It's right there. It sounds more or less like any stock 800 I've ever played. It just doesn't have the headroom of a 100 watter.





Yeah, there's a hp/lp filters on the guitars, but, the eq is there on the solo'd clips too...I'm sure the drums & bass are taking away from 'em, "masking" is what it's called I guess...I'm guessing the cymbals are killing the highs, & the bass is doing the same to the low end/chunk...
Nothing that can't be fixed though, just gotta keep fuckin' with the mix to get it a little better...FWIW, I just slapped the hp/lp filters on the guitars & got the levels where I thought they were about right (the guitars are a little fizzy in the top end, & I put the hp on 'em to make room for the bass...guess like everything I do over here, I went overboard...:D)...Might do a little cut in the bass' low end (hp...just a little higher...or, lower the filter on the guitars or maybe even take it completely off...), & might add just a little high end to the guitars' eq...I'll play around with it tonight & see what I can come up with...I'm really diggin' the little amp though, especially with the T-75....It'd been over a week since I'd even turned the amp on, & it's been months since I've had the Ibanez out...Life's been fuckin' crazy for me the last few months man, seems as soon as I get almost over a hump in the road, something else knocks me back down....but, I keep gettin' up....;)
Instead of high passing, try using shelves. A shelf is a less destructive way to control a range of frequencies. You can tame the lows or highs without removing them all together. I personally don't believe in "making room" for the instruments in a mix. I know it's common practice and "pros" do it all day long. It can be useful and it works sometimes. I'd rather just have sounds that work together without a bunch of fucking around. Your mix is basic enough that I don't think you should have much "masking" going on. It's just drums, bass, and guitar. Those things should fit together without a bunch of EQ work IMO. It's not like a Def Leppard record. :D

BTW, does the overall song sound any better than the last version you heard (drum & timing wise)???? This is the "Greg_L Franken-Kit" with the re-programmed drums....I've been fucking with the hi-hats mostly this week, messing with the different articulations & their levels (IE: a completely open hat would be just a little louder than a closed, & all the in-between sounds would be a little different volume-wise...I know there are a lot of variables, like how hard the hits are & such, but you get the idea I'm onto here...)...Correct me if I'm way off on this dude, if I'm on the right track, I may end up finishing a fuckin' song this year....LOL....Lemme know....
Yes, the drums are definitely better. The snare is considerably better to me. Hats too. The kick is really big, and I think you could tighten it up without losing it's power. A loud kick like that can eat up a lot of headroom and low end. You're mixing like a drummer! :D
Tame that kick, let the guitars breathe, and bring them up. I think the drums are too out front in this test mix. I like big loud drums, but they don't have to be front and center.

Again, your "new" amp sounds tits dude, I'd absolutely love to be able to use one here, but, it ain't happenin' right now, so, the low-watt thing will have to do....I will say that I'd take the low-watt & real speaker/mic over an ampsim anyday...It's not the recorded sound (as I'm pretty confident my ampsim tones are pretty decent...), but the feel too, it's just different, & I play different through either of my little amps...I'd go fuckin' bat-shit, silver-back gorilla crazy with a big amp......:).
Well you're getting great sound from your low watt rig. I would have never believed it a few years ago, but you're doing it. You're doing exactly what I set out to do. I wanted big sounds from little parts. The amps just weren't available, so I went big, and I'm never turning back! :D

Cool tone Greg. Def in the same stadium of ACDC - good Marshall tone - have you tried riffing All Right Now or something from Free? Kossoff was aearly King of the LP into Marshall uniterrupted tone.
Minerman - I noticed a diff between unmixed and mixed then read Greg's commentary.
Is there something the DAW did?
Just read your response to Greg so nothing in particular - H&L pass - really? I do the occasional notch but I don't do pass filters.
Interestingly enough I've found 2 mastering engineers who ask to have those things removed.
Thanks Ray. "All Right Now" is indeed one of the most classic classic Marshall riffs. I'll give it a spin. I've never played it before. Kossoff was a Super Lead guy though, right? I think he had an interesting sound. He wasn't as bright and cutting as other Super Lead users from that era. There's a huge difference in tone between Kossoff and guys like the Young brothers. It's a cool sound though. That song perfectly illustrates my weird juxtaposition with "classic rock". I love the guitar sounds. I love the guitar playing. I love those big Marshally guitar riffs. I hate the songs. I need an album of just the isolated guitar tracks. :laughings:
 
Yeah, dirty but articulate is the shit.
yep ..... I recently had a chance to use my Mark V on a gig and was surprised by how articulate the hi-gain channel was. It had lots of dirt but even on chords you could hear all the notes.
It was almost as if it was clean and the dirt was simply a part of the tone.
 
Minerman - I noticed a diff between unmixed and mixed then read Greg's commentary.
Is there something the DAW did?
Just read your response to Greg so nothing in particular - H&L pass - really? I do the occasional notch but I don't do pass filters.
Interestingly enough I've found 2 mastering engineers who ask to have those things removed.
The guitar tones are exactly the same in both clips, the other instruments (bass & drums) just sucked the top & bottom end out of the guitars...They're probably too low in the mix, basically...thanks for the listen & comments Ray...On the H&L pass filters, I've been doing that for years now, never would've thought it made that much of a difference, so I've learned something new this weekend....Thanks again!!!
 
Yeah, dirty but articulate is the shit. AC/DC exemplifies that as good as anyone. I know they're probably not your thing, but check out the Ramones "Leave Home" album for a critical listen. Listen to the guitar tracks. That is classic punk rock guitar glory. If EVH's brown sound is the "holy grail" of hard rock/lead guitar tone, Johnny Ramone's early sound is the punk rock equivalent. He's hammering away barred powerchords into his Super Leads, but you can hear the notes. The chime is there. The high strings ring through the barrage of sound. It's amazing to me. I noticed it at 12 years old before I knew anything about guitars or amps. It still resonates with me.
Cool story about your childhood Greg, I too was corrupted at a young age, I'd listened to my sister's 8-tracks here/there (like Kiss' "Rock & Roll Over", old Rod Stewart, Alice Cooper, & of course, she had AC-DC tapes) when I was little (starting at about 6 I'm guessing), but the real kicker was when she took me to see AC-DC's Highway To Hell tour in Johnson City, TN, at the age of 8...what a first concert....My sister & her boyfriend too me down in the pit, & put me on their shoulders for the entire show, 8 years old, getting to watch Angus, Malcolm & Bon do their thing...To this day, I remember just about everything about that show, & it wasn't long before I was asking my parents for a guitar, they finally gave in a couple years later, thinking I'd just fool around with it for a little while then forget about it....that's been over 30 years ago, & I'm still playing...:).

You're right, the Ramones ain't my thing, but, I'll give it a search later today, you never know, might be something I'd like...I've learned over the past few years to keep an open mind about new/different music, might even learn something by listening to it....

I've been looking for 800s for sure. I've seen a few decent deals on the 800 reissue, but the originals are being valued really high these days. They're almost up there with Super Leads. The only original 800s that are still reasonably priced are the later horizontal input models, the 2205/2210s, or beaters and/or already modded models. I don't want any of that. I'd happily get a reissue for the right price, or it would have to be an early 80s vertical input 2203 model. I think I can relax now though because this 2204 has that sound now, like it's supposed to. It's right there. It sounds more or less like any stock 800 I've ever played. It just doesn't have the headroom of a 100 watter.
Prices are pretty crazy on old Marshalls now, but I know you'll get an 800 eventually....You'll be out fucking around somewhere & see one at a good price, & snatch it up....I don't blame you though, like I've said countless times, if I could use a big amp here, I'd already have one...or more...



Instead of high passing, try using shelves. A shelf is a less destructive way to control a range of frequencies. You can tame the lows or highs without removing them all together. I personally don't believe in "making room" for the instruments in a mix. I know it's common practice and "pros" do it all day long. It can be useful and it works sometimes. I'd rather just have sounds that work together without a bunch of fucking around. Your mix is basic enough that I don't think you should have much "masking" going on. It's just drums, bass, and guitar. Those things should fit together without a bunch of EQ work IMO. It's not like a Def Leppard record. :D
See, learned something new, didn't know a hp/lp filter was considered "destructive" to be honest, I've just always used 'em...I'll change the hp/lp filters to shelves in just a while to see if they make the mix come together any better....And no, this ain't no Def Leppard record....:).

Yes, the drums are definitely better. The snare is considerably better to me. Hats too. The kick is really big, and I think you could tighten it up without losing it's power. A loud kick like that can eat up a lot of headroom and low end. You're mixing like a drummer! :D
Tame that kick, let the guitars breathe, and bring them up. I think the drums are too out front in this test mix. I like big loud drums, but they don't have to be front and center.
Nice man, I was kinda worried about the drum sound & "performance" to be honest, but I've been trying to think like a drummer (how he'd hit each cymbal/drum with which hand, shit like that)...You're not the first person to tell me that I mix like a drummer either, guess old habits die hard....I'll give all your suggestions a shot in a while & see what happens...Thanks Greg...


Well you're getting great sound from your low watt rig. I would have never believed it a few years ago, but you're doing it. You're doing exactly what I set out to do. I wanted big sounds from little parts. The amps just weren't available, so I went big, and I'm never turning back! :D
Yeah, I love the little Marshall dude, I had it dimed at about 2-3 this morning, & nobody in the house even flinched, so the low-watt amp with the ISO cab is doing what I wanted...If I had the $$$, I'd have all the 1w Marshall amps...Maybe they'll come out with a "regular" 1w line that isn't so expensive, doubtful, but wishful thinking on my end....

Thanks again guys, gonna go try out a few things in the mix to see what I can come up with....
 
Ok, did a few small tweaks to the mix, did a couple little things to the low end in the kick & bass, lowered the overall drum level just a hair....Lemme know what you think....off to see Mom, be back in a few hours...


LDO 3-9-2014
 
Ok, did a few small tweaks to the mix, did a couple little things to the low end in the kick & bass, lowered the overall drum level just a hair....Lemme know what you think....off to see Mom, be back in a few hours...


LDO 3-9-2014
I think that's better. I like that middle "EVH" style riff. The rhythms still seem a little bit scratchy to me. A little boxy, I can't put my finger on it, but they're better.

How is this guitar tone? All 5150 and a 57.

https://db.tt/0w5RBRhi

Yikes! I personally hate it, but you really did a damn fine job capturing it. What cab/speaker and amp settings did you use?
 
Greg: Thanks dude, I'm thinking it may be the mic placement causing the shrill/scratchy high end...Could be the way I've got the amp dialed in, could be a lot of things...Gonna do some more tweaking & I'll be back...LOL....Thanks dude...

Loren: Wow man, that's some heavy shit...Way heavier than anything I'd ever try to do, but like Greg mentioned, you've done a super job on the recording/mixing, just not my style of music....Guess I'm more old-school, hard-rock, 80's hair metal myself....But again, super job on the tones & mix dude....
 
Last edited:
Ok, did a few small tweaks to the mix, did a couple little things to the low end in the kick & bass, lowered the overall drum level just a hair....Lemme know what you think....off to see Mom, be back in a few hours...


LDO 3-9-2014

DSL
DSL
DSL
Gotta luv it!
 
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