The Loudness Wars Again... And a study

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Music is after all made for human consumption not for scopes.

This is an important point. Music requires an audience (even if it is only the person creating the music). Every listener is different, and will exercise different preferences. Each listener is entitled to his or her own preferences, and no-one can declare that someone else's preferences are wrong. I have no problem with someone stating that they prefer the sound of analog over digital, even though I don't. I have no problem with someone stating that they think digital sounds 'harsh', even though I don't think it does.

However, I do get disturbed when people use their preferences as a measure of choice superiority, e.g. "I like analog (or digital) because it is better." This often is circular: "Why is it better?" "Because I like it." Sometimes the answer is along the lines of "because it sounds 'warmer' (or 'cleaner')." These answers head back into preference territory, the equivalent of "I like it because I like it", and can't be contradicted.

For something to be regarded as 'better', where 'better' is more than just an expression of opinion, requires a more objective measurement of what 'better' is. For example, a signal to noise ratio, or a frequency response graph. Measurements such as these are not determined by preferences, but by devices such as 'scopes'.

There are two main points here: an objective measurement of technological 'betterness' does not mean that for any particular listener, the result is subjectively better. The corollary is that a subjective measure of 'betterness' does not mean that the technology is better. I think that most of the analog versus digital debate is the result of confusing the subjective and objective, and using one to prove the other.
 
Meaning what, specifically? Let me guess what's almost too obvious:...

... causing the heatsink to ring like a bell. “Uh… no, I don’t think so.” ...it was still ringing as I walked away.
A so called reference monitor with a physical component with some resonant anomaly is by definition flawed.
 
A so called reference monitor with a physical component with some resonant anomaly is by definition flawed.

Yup. I agree. And flicking it with a finger is a pretty good objective test. And as matter of curiosity, I just flicked the metal on the back of my actives. Thankfully no ring, just a dead click.
 
Does anybody today seriously advocate a return to Phillips cassette based Walkmans?

But also keep in mind CD is a dying format... all but abandoned.
Flip. I'm in trouble. Tape and CD are all I have ! :listeningmusic:

Its no coincidence that the decrease in quality of music, especially pop, as indicated by the study, tracks the adoption of digital technologies.
The more cynical among us would say that after 50 golden years of invention and innovation in popular music, man has just largely run out of good ideas ! It's virtually all been done now.
 
Yup. I agree. And flicking it with a finger is a pretty good objective test. And as matter of curiosity, I just flicked the metal on the back of my actives. Thankfully no ring, just a dead click.

Wait ... what? I've never heard about this. What does it mean exactly? Why would some ring, and why would that be a bad thing?
 
Ok...

Couldn't that give you a false peak in some troublesome resonant frequency? That seems like the obvious answer.

Look how much is focused on this board and makes people go apeso-nutso about "room treatment". Same idea, but reference monitors are such a basic and relied upon piece of gear, of which there is much discussion but rarely any agreement. In general I think it's basically agreed they should be "transparent" and "accurate".

:spank::eek:;)
 
I don't think I'm cynical, per se, but...

Flip. I'm in trouble. Tape and CD are all I have ! :listeningmusic:
No doubt,... you're doomed!


The more cynical among us would say that after 50 golden years of invention and innovation in popular music, man has just largely run out of good ideas ! It's virtually all been done now.
With all seriousness, I think this more true than not. OT, just look all around us. Classic movie remakes that didn't need remaking. The one that's become most noticeable to me lately is... no new "jingles"! Virtually every commercial you'll see today is soundtracked by some very famous and well known classic rock song. Sure, it's indicative of older artists seeking a new payday, but moreover IMO it's a simple void of creativity in the artistic/creative community responsible for producing such commercials.

That's my take on it. YMMV.
:spank::eek:;)
 
Veering wildly back On-Topic,...

I think "loudness wars" itself is one of the most heinous "me-too" phenomena to sweep thru the music industry, as of late. YMMV.

I repeat,... FWIW, did we need a formal "study" to determine this issue "officially"?
:spank::eek:;)
 
Some degree of resonance in a speaker, no matter what sort it is, is inevitable. Every driver has some resonance in it. There is the classic "double hump" phenomenon. It's not just the heatsink of a powered speaker's amp that's the problem -if only it was the only problem.

In practice I suspect the resonance of a powered speaker's heatsink would be about the least of the designer's worries, and if it was significantly audible, it would be the easiest to damp. And just because it goes "ding" when you tap it, doesnt necessarily mean it will be a problem in normal use.

To reject a powered speaker -or all powered speakers - purely on the basis that the heatsink rings when you tap it would be pretty stupid.

The question then is how much of a resonance is it. It needs to be quantified and placed in the context of the effect on the total performance of the speaker.

Powered speakers/unpowered speakers? There are good and bad examples in both. Each has its strengths and limitations.
 
Um, I'm just a tool, but what would the significance of a ringing heatsink be with a driver that is putting out a hugely larger amount of decibels than a resonating thing caused by it. It seems that my cat purring on my lap might be a bigger issue. Though, I don't have any cats, so my point is completely irrelevant.
 
That’s just plain uninformed bad advice. Once again you have no idea what you're talking about.

And once again, I'll leave it to the readers and the Moderators to make up their own minds about that.
You are just one voice among many, thank god.
 
...but what would the significance of a ringing heatsink be with a driver that is putting out a hugely larger amount of decibels than a resonating thing caused by it.

I'm no expert but from a physics stand point this seems incorrect. The heat sink is resonating, it doesn't produce it's own sound so when your speaker is putting out 'hugely large amount of decibels' the heat sink will resonate more and hence get louder.

Unless the speaker is specifically designed to have a dip at the exact frequency that the heatsink resonates :facepalm: then it's a design flaw.

To illustrate this better, you may be familiar with this one... Tacoma Narrows Bridge Collapse - YouTube

The resonant frequency of the bridge happened to be the frequency of the wind and it resonated to the point of failure - A design flaw...
 
I'm no expert but from a physics stand point this seems incorrect. The heat sink is resonating, it doesn't produce it's own sound so when your speaker is putting out 'hugely large amount of decibels' the heat sink will resonate more and hence get louder.

Unless the speaker is specifically designed to have a dip at the exact frequency that the heatsink resonates :facepalm: then it's a design flaw.

To illustrate this better, you may be familiar with this one... Tacoma Narrows Bridge Collapse - YouTube

The resonant frequency of the bridge happened to be the frequency of the wind and it resonated to the point of failure - A design flaw...

I clearly stated that I was a tool. A really handy one if I do say so myself, but still don't get it. I do not plan to even try either. Carry on guys. I didn't mean to throw my wrench in here. Continue to enjoy yourselves. :)
 
And once again, I'll leave it to the readers and the Moderators to make up their own minds about that.
You are just one voice among many, thank god.

Thank fuck you live on the other side of the country. I've rarely seen you be more than a disagreeable, semi-argumentative dickhead who until now, I've chosen to ignore!!!:rolleyes::yawn:
 
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Wow, this is now the third post Beck has gone back and deleted in this thread. Has anybody else noticed this? If you dont believe me just click on Beck, go to "View Forum Posts" and see for yourselves.

So what's this all about? Does anyone know?

Tim G
 
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