Terry's Rubber Rollers - Had a couple made recently

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KVI said:
...Athan Corp confirmed this when I contacted them about the goo experiences.
Click to expand...

Can you be clear...is Athan saying DON'T use their cleaning product on their rollers...or don't use it on their older rollers...???
They have nothing on their website about any potential issues, and I wouldn't expect them to sell product to the greater tape using community if their products had issues.


I have an Athan roller on my 2" deck...had it for about 3-4 years now, and it's as good as the day I bought it. I was actually planning to buy the matching counter roller from them.

[EDIT]

See my follow-up post below...I got the answers to my question.
 
Last edited:
OK...just to follow up on the post made by KVI above...

Spoke directly with Athan today, on a Sunday no less... :) ...and there are no issues with Athan poly rollers or their cleaning solution.
The will last 4 times longer than a rubber roller under the same use and circumstances.

It appears that some people may be confusing poly rollers made by other manufacturers, including those made by tape machine manufactures like Studer and Ampex, who made their versions of polyurethane rollers, but with less success....compared with the poly rollers that are made by Athan.
Plus, some folks are buying used poly rollers, sometimes 20-30 years old...and assuming they are new or that they will perform like new.

If anyone has any concerns about Athan rollers...they should call them directly and get the info that way, rather than through anecdotes on the internet. ;)

I'm set to order a new counter roller from Athan for my MX-80...and have no concerns at all.
Keep in mind that you really don't need to clean the Athan rollers anywhere near as much as you do old-school rubber rollers (which will wear out 4 times faster than a poly roller), so some folks are over-cleaning and causing their own issues.
Figure that into the total equation when deciding which rollers to get and the cost.
 
Thanks for the follow up, Miro. I’m saving up to get a set of rollers for my 3M M64 halftrack from Athan.
 
Caveat emptor.

As I stated, I've been using Athan ATR, VTR and VCR poly rollers for over 20 years and thousands of use hours in a broadcast level production/duplication environment, always buying directly from Athan. I have shared my factual experience with those rollers. It doesn't matter to me what purchasing choice you make.

However, I do recommend that you carefully inspect their rollers after cleaning and before you hit play on that archive master tape.

Here are excerpts from two email exchanges I had with George at Athan, one in 2018 and one in 2010 dealing with the sticky poly roller issue.

====================================2018 SNIP=====================================

"Hi XXXXX

It’s part of the aging process of the pinch roller.

Thank you
George



On Jun 22, 2018, at 12:11 PM, <KVI> wrote:


Hey George,

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Oddly this roller had practically no wear on it. In fact I probably haven’t run a dozen reels on it since installing it. There was no oxide embedded at all at the start of the transfer and the urethane material felt like it did when new.

It’s been a while since I’ve used the Otari and the first pass of a 7.5” reel left a little oxide that I attempted to clean, with your cleaner, before I started the opposite side. As soon as I put the cleaning solution on and started rubbing I could feel the urethane turning gooey.

Same thing happened with the VPR roller a few years ago. Normal urethane turned to goo only after applying the cleaner.

The cleaning solution has gone clear but otherwise feels and smells the same as new.



From: athancorp
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 2:57 PM
To: KVI
Subject: Athan Corp: 5050

HI xxxx,

Thanks for reaching out. The 'age' of the roller depends on a few things, the actual age, the amount of use and how you are using it. The pinch roller is 10 years old. That's very good roller life over all. If it's being used continually over that time the tape will start to eat away at the roller. The oxide on the tape will come off onto the pinch roller and will ruin the pinch roller over time basically. Older tape stock will leave more of the oxide causing the roller to wear even faster. Conditions in the facility, such as humidity, can effect the roller as well.

The cleaning solution will not ruin the roller. I've been using this cleaning solution for decades in house and have never had problems. It's actually an all natural cleaner with no harsh chemicals.

It was just an old roller that needed replacing. You got good life out of it. It was just time for a new roller.


Thank you,

George Athanasiou

Athan Corporation
50 South Linden Ave. Ste.10
South San Francisco CA 94080
(650) xxx-xxxx


-----Original Message-----
From:KVI
To: athancorp
Sent: Thu, Jun 21, 2018 11:41 am
Subject: New Form Entry: Contact Form

Submitted Information:

Comment
I just cleaned one of your ATH-5050-4P pinch rollers with your cleaning solution and now have a gummy glob.

The cleaning solution was purchased in early 2012. The roller probably 2008. The same thing happened on my last ATH-VPR roller back in 2012.

What can I expect for a life of the roller, and cleaning fluid?

Is it the aged fluid that ruins the roller?

Pulled my last used rubber roller out to finish the job.


=============================2010 SNIP ===============================================



----- Original Message ----- From: "George Athanasiou" <athancorp>
To: "KVI"
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: poly pinch roller sticky

Hi xxxxx

It sounds like an age problem.

Thank you
George

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 15, 2010, at 1:41 PM, "KVI." wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I just cleaned one of your poly pinch rollers I have mounted in a BVW-75 > using your cleaning solution. The pinch roller is now sticky and the tape > is adhering to the roller. The roller doesn't feel tacky to the touch. I > have a variety of your poly rollers in use and this is the first time I've > encountered this situation. The cleaning solution is probably 8 years > old, could that be the cause? The roller is probably just as old but > isn't showing signs of wear and cleaned to a nice finish.
>
> KVI
> xxxxxxxxxxx, FL
 
KVI said:
Caveat emptor.

As I stated, I've been using Athan ATR, VTR and VCR poly rollers for over 20 years and thousands of use hours in a broadcast level production/duplication environment, always buying directly from Athan. I have shared my factual experience with those rollers.
Click to expand...

in every email exchange you posted, it appears you're talking about 10+ year old rollers (regardless if they "look" like when they were new)...and it appears you're also a heavy user (duplication), so I'm not understanding how long you're expecting from rollers under those conditions?

Like you...there are hundreds, if not thousands, of Athan roller users in the pro audio and video industry, and this is the first time I've heard anyone with your issues. I'm sure if the poly rollers were falling apart and gumming up, it wouldn't be happening just to you.
I asked George what's the expected age under normal daily use...and he said 10 years is a good expectation...longer with lighter use, but I don't think that just leaving them on the shelf for 15-20 years there could be any expectation they would still be "like new".
Same thing with the cleaning solution. Both things will probably experience degradation at some point in time.
I'm not even sure what chemicals are in the poly cleaning solution...?...though from the your post, it looks like Athan stated it was a "natural solution" without any harsh chemicals.

AFA how you're cleaning them and/or what you were cleaning them with before using Athan's solution...and how often you are cleaning them...it will all go into that equation. I clean mine very rarely, and I just use some water, simply because it doesn't get dirty...but I also use good tape, which minimizes the need to clean constantly.

I'm not saying you're making all this up...but that maybe you have some specific usage/cleaning situation, and of course, the big thing, and what Athan was pointing out... the rollers are 10+ years old, and that you've gotten plenty of use out of them before going bad.
So are you getting rid of all your Athan rollers...and switching them all back to black rubber rollers...or....?
 
I've replaced hundreds of pinch rollers over the last 35+ years. As I stated, for heavy use I was happy with the Athan, but I don't find them suitable for my current workload of tape based jobs (archival preservation transfers) where longer and longer intervals of machine idle time occurs.

If I can't get more than 8 transfers of 7.5" reels of 1/4" tape from a poly roller I've wasted a lot of money, especially when I have to go back to the previously installed older rubber roller to finish the last reel of a job. Which is my main point, I'm getting better life out of rubber than poly with current workloads.

I have no choice as to what type tape I use. "Good tape" doesn't exist. All tape degrades, some faster than others. It's not unusual to have significant shedding from a single side pass of one tape, sufficient to require cleaning, especially with the age of the materials I encounter.

You don't appear to have much personal experience with Athan products. Your statements are mostly based on conjecture, hypothetical suppositions, and personal assumptions as well as comments from the manufacturer, who has a vested interest in selling his product.

If the Athan, or poly rollers in general, were so great, then why weren't they supplied as OEM in any of the broadcast or industrial VTR/VCR product lines? The price of putting a poly roller on a deck costing $25,000 to 50,000+ versus a rubber roller is inconsequential, but it was never done.

Again, I don't care what anyone else purchases. And the next comment is not a disparaging remark directed at you. I just get tired of forums where over excited fan-boys spread (mis)information based on conjecture and marketing hype, instead of real-life personal experience.

I'm currently working on the digital archiving of over one hundred hours of 1-inch type C, 3/4-inch Umatic SP, Betacam SP and Digital Betacam masters, and it will all be handled by rubber rollers.

Cheers
 
You keep saying you don't care what anyone uses...yet you showed up here purely for that purpose, joining the forum specifically to decry the use of Athan rollers, on some level.
I always question motives of new forum members who with their very first post are either talking something down...or talking something up.
Your comments about Athan rollers are also somewhat cryptic and confusing...on the one hand you now say you were happy with using Athan for heavy use...but if you don't use them enough, they fall apart...huh???

AFA your experiences VS mine or anyone else's here...you make claims about what you do that imply some big-time, multi-format machine usage, duplication and restoration business, which would appear to be a commercial situation...OK then, please post a link and back up your 35 years. At least then you being only a 3-post new member will have some credibility more than just what you type.

I was pretty straightforward about my Athan roller use... I do go for longer intervals of no use, and yet my Athan roller isn't falling apart or getting gooey...but AFA my statements, they are not based on conjecture, hypothesis or assumptions, but rather on basic research.
I do have experience using Athan, but I also spent some time researching their quality and a bit of the science behind their poly rollers...but most importantly, what the extended user base had to say, of which you are the first I've heard who specifically claims the Athan poly rollers fall apart...and then here's the thing you keep missing, even though you have stated it in both your emails with Athan and here....the rollers you claim have gone bad, all appear to be 10+ years old.

You know, you can buy brand new tires and let them sit in your garage for 10-15 years, and they will not perform like new.
You seem to admit that everything degrades with time, yet you also seem to expect that Athan rollers shouldn't be bound by any of those limitations.

Bottom line...I didn't switch to Athan because I expected a lifetime roller (no matter how many years) that would be "like new" from start into eternity.
I mainly switched to the Athan roller because it's a better, precision machined/manufactured product that reduces Wow & Flutter and outperforms basic rubber rollers on many levels.
When the time comes to replace my Athan roller in 10+ years (I'm sure it will be longer)...I'll get another one, but I won't go to some forum, join up, and complain that my 10-15 year old rollers are having issues. :facepalm:
 
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