TEAC 32-2B Tape falling from heads during play/record

Are those tension arms supposed to be fully up all the time? It looks very wrong to me because on most machines they should be roughly at half travel in normal operation. I'd be checking the reel motor control system to see why the motors seem to be at full tension all the time.
I wondered about that too, but decided to focus on the isolated section of the tape path in the headblock first…if holdback tension was too much and overwhelming the supply side capstan, it would potentially mitigate the issue in between the capstan shafts, not cause it, and same for the takeup side. But I agree. I was wondering too, and it should be looked at. I looked briefly in the X-10 series manual I have and it looks like a simple “tweak this trimmer to center the tension arm” rather than measuring actual tension. Maybe there’s more but it looks like tension setting is not specific to the tape or anything, but a more arbitrary setting of the position of the tension arm.
 
@sweetbeats I found the service manual from the X-10R and it’s identical to the 32-2B service manual. I saw that statement that said there are NO adjustments to the capstan assembly!! I guess that’s why I often read statements like “Don’t sink any $$ into this machine”. Money pit. I’m going to go ahead and open it up, check the belt. At least they are not that expensive.
 
On the tension arms, I thought I’d try holding them down a little to see if the tape would correct itself and it didn’t help. Not the most scientific approach I know. I hope when I open it up, I’ll find out more.
 
On the tension arms, I thought I’d try holding them down a little to see if the tape would correct itself and it didn’t help. Not the most scientific approach I know. I hope when I open it up, I’ll find out more.
You need to try @rob aylestone’s suggestion about pushing the right pinch roller up when it starts dropping tape and see what happens. That could be a valuable bit of information.
 
Okay, I tried that. Putting pressure on either pinch roller did nothing to stop the tape from falling away from the heads.
I tried two small reels, I tried low speed as well as high speed. Same...
All this with the ATR MDS-36 tape.
I tried some older, thicker scotch tape that I got with another reel to reel in 2021. No sticky shed but it's old. Someone had recorded some awful 80s no name band albums on it at low speed. Even though it was recorded on a 4 track auto reverse machine, it plays back okay and the tape DOES NOT come away from the heads.
But now there might be an even bigger problem, trying to record using front MIC inputs and read LINE inputs has low signal, a lot of noise and when recording, it's spotty (which could still be tape to head tension problems) but it sounds terrible.
I'm not sure I have the patience to sit and diagnose this machine much more and maybe I can find someone local or close that might like it for what I have in it.
 
If the thicker tape works, that supports my theory you’ve got an issue with the capstan drive…you need to go through the steps in the manual, get a new belt, clean and lube the capstan bearing assemblies, check pin holler stroke and pressure, and I see later in the manual there’s pinch roller alignment steps if they are not parallel…I’m wondering why it is there’s a design that allows the possibility of pinch rollers being out of alignment and there’s a special tool to align them…damper strings…this is seeming more and more like a consumer-grade machine. My sincere apologies if I offend any X-10 series or 32-2 fans out there…it just seems it’s not an easy machine to service or keep running when it needs fixed. If it was me I don’t think I’d spend the time on it unless there was nostalgia involved or it otherwise wasn’t realistic for me to get into something different…you’ll put money into something that has a more complex design without the engineering behind it to support keeping it going. So there’s my 2 pence. BUT…it costs almost nothing but time to throw a new belt on it and do the other things I mentioned.
 
If the thicker tape works, that supports my theory you’ve got an issue with the capstan drive…you need to go through the steps in the manual, get a new belt, clean and lube the capstan bearing assemblies, check pin holler stroke and pressure, and I see later in the manual there’s pinch roller alignment steps if they are not parallel…I’m wondering why it is there’s a design that allows the possibility of pinch rollers being out of alignment and there’s a special tool to align them…damper strings…this is seeming more and more like a consumer-grade machine. My sincere apologies if I offend any X-10 series or 32-2 fans out there…it just seems it’s not an easy machine to service or keep running when it needs fixed. If it was me I don’t think I’d spend the time on it unless there was nostalgia involved or it otherwise wasn’t realistic for me to get into something different…you’ll put money into something that has a more complex design without the engineering behind it to support keeping it going. So there’s my 2 pence. BUT…it costs almost nothing but time to throw a new belt on it and do the other things I mentioned.
I agree, this is a consumer-grade machine in a professional housing. They were probably having trouble moving the X-10s and though by adding the pro Tascam name they'd get rid of more. I don't think I'm going to spend any more time on it. I have contacted one of the guys I know that has a few R2R rotating through his shop, he may be interested in getting it for parts and maybe I can get my $300 out of it.

NOW, to the next question: (If I even want to care to continue to do this full analog path mix down to 2 track thing just for fun and just dump my tracks from the MS-16 to DAW)
Q: If I wanted to pick up an affordable yet professional grade machine, what should I look for? They don't come up locally very often. I want Two Track Stereo mastering deck, not 4 split tracks auto reverse models.
People look at the prices on Reverb and think they can get that around here. The last three I picked up I got for under $300 each, sold both of the others off for what I had in them, thought this one was going to be a good one... oh well.
Thanks for your advice and attention!
 
Define “affordable.” That’s different for everybody and also highly circumstantial, and stretched and pulled around by the market. What would YOU spend on a working or serviceable prosumer to professional halftrack machine?

How far are you willing to travel before it’s no longer “local” to you? I spent the better part of a day and drove over 400 miles to get my Studer mixing desk, and drove over 2,200 miles over a day and a half to get my early 1980s Tascam prototype mixing console. Both trips, for what I was picking up, and the prices I paid, felt “local” to me.

And what part of the world are you in? I could see if there’s some options “local” to you once I know what that is. If you don’t want to share general locality all public like, you can PM me. Or just search Craigslist, Reverb, Facebook Marketplace, use geographical filters to narrow your search area, and search for “tape, reel, analog”…that sort of thing, in musical instruments.
 
Under $1000, 100 miles, located in Northwest Arkansas (we are an hour away from Fayetteville and an hour away from Branson, two hours from Springfield, MO)
Prosumer would work, esp if it was more “repairable”… but at the end of the day, all this has me questioning if it’s worth this path. The guy I bought the MS-16 from had a non-functioning (as far as he knew) Technics with the same style “loop” you showed on your machine earlier in this thread. Not sure what model. It was 2 track and black aluminum.
 
“Technics with the same style ‘loop’…”

Right…RS-1500, 1506, 1520 or 1700. I might not be popular for saying this, but that is a consumer machine all the way. And though the tape path might look like the same style as the 3M Isoloop, they are nothing alike. The Technics design is essentially the same as the X-10, just wrapped around in something that looks like the 3M closed-loop design. The Technics setup is at least adjustable as far as the pinch rollers go compared to the Teac/Tascam setup, but reading the service manual it looks like a relative pain to setup. Notice on the 3M there are no tension arms. There are two fixed guides upstream of and downstream of the capstan shaft. It’s bone simple resistor holdback and takeup tension but what more do you need? Because you actually have a true mechanical constant tension isolated closed loop design with no static guides inside the loop…actually no guides at all…the only mechanical noise is from the reversing idler which is a precision instrument in and of itself. 3M was after excellence with the design. You have to keep in mind instrumentation machines are recording and reproducing much higher frequency information that audio bandwidth, and low wow and flutter were essential. The only stationary things the tape touches are the heads inside the loop. There’s no scrape flutter idler. They didn’t need it. And while the Technics tension inside it’s loop depends on careful adjustments of the pinch rollers, the 3M design simply depends on positive contact of each roller with its associated contoured surface of the capstan shaft. Look at this:


E8FFF116-B8E6-4FD5-819E-44B8E151F306.jpeg

That’s from the RS-1500/1506 brochure. The design is a bad facsimile of 3M innovation going back instrumentation machines from the 1950s. 3M Mincom translated the concept to their audio division with the M23 in the early 1960s. Technics introduced the RS-1500/1506 in the mid 1970s. But their “innovation” doesn’t carry forward the simple but elegant genius of the 3M Isoloop design, which depends not on any complex servo tension system…it’s mechanical constant tension…relay logic…not an IC in sight…all AC motors…and still out-performed the “professional” transport specs of the Technics machine a decade and a half earlier. No comparison. People will argue that point with me but you have to compare the specifications carefully, because Technics leads the reader with a typical percentage figure, but then following is a relatively massive +/- percentage swing which all equals more than the 3M spec, and the Technics spec is based on reproduce only of a precision test tape. The 3M spec clearly states it is the maximum amount…worst case…AND is the cumulative figure of tone recorded AND reproduced on the machine. It is the most real-world specification sheet I’ve ever seen in this area, and it is still much better than much more modern machines. The 3M machines were so innovative they didn’t even have mechanical brakes…that’s right, relay logic dynamic braking way back in the early 1960s. Sorry you got me started and I know you didn’t intend for that. It’s just the Technics machines were designed and built to sell and make money for the consumer market bracket. And they did well. But like I said it’s the X-10 tape path in a closed-loop format with some fortunate adjustability to the pinch rollers, but it’s a cylindrical capstan with symmetrical pinch rollers. And would be a pain in the ass to work on compared to a 3M machine. The 3M machines were designed and built for a professional market that disappeared a long time ago. And we’ve not even started talking about amplifier electronics. I don’t suspect you were thinking about reaching back out to the feller with the Technics, but I wouldn’t recommend it for your needs. If he’s giving it to you and you want to spend maybe $200-300 in parts and curse a lot getting it working you’d be able to sell it for a healthy profit. Those things sell for silly money to the audiophile market, which is why I say what I’m saying here is surely unpopular, because the Technics machines are very popular and sought after. For what they sell for I would take any Otari MTR series or Tascam 40, 50, or ATR60 series or BR-20 halftrack machines all day long over the Technics machines…I’d even take an Otari MX-5050 series halftrack over the Technics…reliable well-performing work-horses are the MX-5050 machines.

So…anyway…congrats if you read all that.

Let’s see what’s in your market…
 
Thanks, sorry I got you riled up! ha ha
I’m still learning about a lot of this but I’m learning and still interested in learning more!
I know I’m looking for a true mastering style half track stereo. Most of this consumer/prosumer stuff is quarter track auto reverse, etc. Not what i want. Honestly, the 32-2, for all it’s faults as a consumer unit, would have suited my needs to have fun, but I’m not sinking more $$ into it and have listed it for sale on FB for local sale only.
I found a TEAC X-2000R in Springfield but it’s quarter track and ridiculously priced! If I found the X-2000M, I might go for it, as it’s the “Mastering” deck with half track.
I‘ll keep on the hunt for an Otari or one of the higher end Tascam units. I used the Otari MX-5050 (or a model like it) extensively in 1993-1995 when I worked at the recording studio. I did a whole lotta tape editing with that machine for voice over/commercial production work. It was a wonderful machine.

Again, thank you for keeping us honest and informed here. You are a fantastic asset and fellow machine head, and we’re proud to have you here at Homerecording.com!!
 
I'd add Revox to Sweetbeats' list - solidly built, easy to service and far better than the Tascam 32. The B77 and PR99 are commonly found in the high speed format. You need to be a little more careful if you find a high speed A77 - initially they weren't available in this format from the factory and some of the mods have the capstan in the wrong place.
 
On the tension arms, I thought I’d try holding them down a little to see if the tape would correct itself and it didn’t help. Not the most scientific approach I know. I hope when I open it up, I’ll find out more.
That would only make things worse - the motor would increase its power even more because it thinks the tape tension isn't high enough. You need to find out whether the tension arm springs are broken, missing or stretched. If not, there must be another reason for the apparently excessive tape tension which really needs to be sorted out.
 
Under $1000, 100 miles, located in Northwest Arkansas (we are an hour away from Fayetteville and an hour away from Branson, two hours from Springfield, MO)
Prosumer would work, esp if it was more “repairable”… but at the end of the day, all this has me questioning if it’s worth this path. The guy I bought the MS-16 from had a non-functioning (as far as he knew) Technics with the same style “loop” you showed on your machine earlier in this thread. Not sure what model. It was 2 track and black aluminum.
Well dang aren’t you in the black hole of affordable local halftrack mastering machines…I found four, all Otari MX-50 or MX-5050 series machines, one out of your budget, and all greater than 100 miles:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/6045823052128187/?mibextid=6ojiHh

MX-50 in tabletop console $899 Oklahoma City, OK



https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/669069558288108/?mibextid=6ojiHh

MX-5050 tabletop $1,200 Flower Mound, TX



https://www.ebay.com/itm/2252790038...624&ssuid=&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

MX-5050 BIII-2 $595 Ballwin, MO



https://www.ebay.com/itm/3253271314...624&ssuid=&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

MX-50 $695 with stand and fancy reel hold-downs Ballwin, MO same seller as ^^^^
 
Well dang aren’t you in the black hole of affordable local halftrack mastering machines…I found four, all Otari MX-50 or MX-5050 series machines, one out of your budget, and all greater than 100 miles:
Yes, yes we are! We joke that our town is a “g-d geographical oddity… 1 hour from everywhere!” I shop a lot up in Branson, MO, and you’d think there would be a lot of equipment coming through there, but most of those venues and shows up there have long since converted to digital and sold all that stuff off. Ballwin, MO is near St. Louis, so about 5hrs away. Not that I couldn’t make that trip, but too bad that not closer.

Thanks for finding all those, you’re awesome man!
 
Okay, so I opened it up. Upon inspection, I immediately noticed this anomaly: The supply side tension arm spring is not extended like the take up side. The little washer is on the wrong side of it's holder. It's a closed holder screwed on, so, not quite sure how it was possible to move unless someone moved it or it was designed like that.
IMG_8468.JPG
IMG_8469.JPG

Also, upon moving the control PCB to it's top hook holders, I found this cable not connected to anything and can't figure out anywhere for it to go. Was it always disconnected? I'll keep looking for an empty plug in.
IMG_8470.JPG
 
Fixed the tension arm damper string. Put it back together (still don't know what that red tipped cable plug is for!?). machine operates again and the tape doesn't drop from the heads with the ATR MDS-36 tape, but the walking on the pinch roller is still happening and eventually it snarls up the tape and the tension arms stop the machine. New pinch rollers?
BTW, the capstan belt is in great condition, I would say it's likely been replaced with a new one at some point, it's really much newer than the little belt on the counter.
Heres the video I uploaded:
 
I wouldn’t worry about the unterminated cable. Sometimes those are for testing and other times for features your machine doesn’t have…there’s one of those in the 244. You can follow the wires to where it originates and look at the schematics to verify.
 
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