Syncing Otari MX-70??

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vinyvamos

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I've recently picked up lovely Otari MX-70 1" 8 track (it's an 8 wired for 16 model) and I'm hoping to sync it to a Tascam 48 that I bought from the same guy. From what I've been reading it seems I'd have to sacrifice a track on each for striped SMPTE AND find a synchronizer to control the two machines! What I would love to know is have any of you guys seen this done directly using the "SMPTE" accessory connections or is this totally out of the question? I know tape slippage would probably be a major issue.

Another option I have is to get a 16 track headstack for the Otari and 8 more cards but that might cost me loads and I'd be sacrificing the fat tape width that the 8 tracks on 1" offers. I am intending to have a fully analog ~16 track setup but am on a very limited budget. I've been messing with a 38 for about 2 years now but wanted to upgrade.

If you can let me know your thoughts and ideas it'd be much appeciated and even average costs on the Otari parts! Thanks in advance!

Vinny
 
I am envious of the size of your 1" machine. How much did you pay for it??
 
I run two TSR-8s in sync. Most of my music is sequencer-based so I had to use track 8 for a timecode anyway. It can be a bit of a fiddle, but I do get 14 tracks out of it, which is better than 7.

Now, there was a point where I had the synchronizer half-working.... it would display the different timecodes and the relative difference between them, but not lock them together. Before I got full capstan-control to work, I did actually do a manual sync where I kept minutely adjusting the varispeed on one of the machines to keep them within a couple of frames of each other. I would not recommend that at all, since you spend your entire time during the mix pretending to be the capstan servo and it's not possible to adjust the faders or do anything else at all.
And even that would only work if you had a timecode on both tapes.

There are rumours that Tom Scholz of Boston was able to synchronize machines using a bent coathanger and a pair of headphones, by manually flanging it until the signal from each machine was centered in the middle of his head, but frankly, that's for insane geniuses, and you'd still need someone else to do the actual mixing.

If you can get a TimeLine Lynx 2 or something, I think that should be able to do it, but you will probably have to make the cables yourself. I have a pair of Lynx-1s which I never quite got to work - although they were never intended to work with the TSR-8, because it came out after the Lynx-1. Checking mine, it does know about both the Tascam 48 and the Otari MX70, so it might be a viable option.
I use mine as timecode displays now, and an ATS-500 for sync as it was actually designed to support the TSR-8.
 
Syncing these machines will only cause you heartache. You should just sell me the MX-70 and avoid the misery. How's $500 sound? :)

Cheers,

Otto
 
jpmorris said:
IThere are rumours that Tom Scholz of Boston was able to synchronize machines using a bent coathanger and a pair of headphones, by manually flanging it until the signal from each machine was centered in the middle of his head, but frankly, that's for insane geniuses, and you'd still need someone else to do the actual mixing.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Tom syncs his M-79s using standard technology. I can check with Doug Weeks and make sure.

Cheers,

Otto
 
It’s true about The “Scholz syncing method”… he did it this way during the ‘Third Stage’ years, but I don’t know if it was a regular practice or how long it’s been since he was using this technique. He actually used his thumbs… one on each supply reel to manually slow down and speed up one or the other. He kept them in sync by referencing a snare (or cymbal… can’t remember now) recorded on one track of each machine… one on the left headphone channel and the other on the right. As long as the phantom image was dead center the machines were in sync. He said he didn’t like any of the sync systems out at the time… that none of them could keep the machines as tight as he could with his ears. He used the coat hanger to engage transport controls from a distance with his toe.

I’ve read about this in a couple sources over the years... one I can't remember the mag, but the following is from an interview with Scholz in the January 1987 issue of Musician Magazine, which I bought after Third Stage came out, and still have.

Scholz's basement laboratory is not a showplace of new high-tech gear, because Tom is no fan of digital equipment: “Anyplace you've got a microprocessor, you've got a disaster waiting to happen. I avoid them like the plague." This means analog tools wherever they work. The main multitrackers are two 3M M-79s, which Scholz uses to dupe his masters so he can wear out the copy. There's also a couple of Studers, his first Scully 12-track, and a Scully mixdown deck for mastering. This last is equipped with a special meter to precisely set the high frequency bias tone so he can take advantage of a notch in the signal-to-noise characteristics of Scotch 226 tape; this gives him exceptional low-noise, big headroom master mixes.

Incredibly, most of his recordings are fourth generation, which he gets away with by plenty of masking and gating. To sync his big decks together, Scholz tried an expensive SMPTE synchronizer, but found it had too much wow; now he syncs up by putting each deck on a side of his headphones and slowing the reel down with his hands so the sound is in the center of his head. His method of punching in and out is similarly low-tech: a bent coathanger to simultaneously hit the play and record buttons with his toe.​

:)
 
FALKEN said:
I am envious of the size of your 1" machine. How much did you pay for it??
Click to expand...

I paid £400 ($790) for it and £250 ($493) for the 48. Both are in very good condition! Especially the Otari on which the heads are mint. The only thing that needs doing is the relays need replacing on the cards as it has the dreaded and infamous "ghost noise" complaint. this will be easy to do though as my main line of work is electronics.
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I'll keep an eye out for a TimeLine Lynx 2 anyway. The cables would be the least of my worries.
That's really interesting about Tom Scholz! Dunno if I'd be up for following in his "footsteps" though:p

Another question: Has ANYONE come across an MX-70 with an SMPTE card installed? They are mentioned breifly in the manuals but there's no details on them or part numbers. My machine does have an XLR socket in the right expansion panel (looking from the back) but I'd say it's a DIY mod. Any light on this would be great!
 
FALKEN said:
I am envious of the size of your 1" machine. How much did you pay for it??
Click to expand...

I paid £400 ($790) for it and £250 ($493) for the 48. Both are in very good condition! Especially the Otari on which the heads are mint. The only thing that needs doing is the relays need replacing on the cards as it has the dreaded and infamous "ghost noise" complaint. this will be easy to do though as my main line of work is electronics.
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I'll keep an eye out for a TimeLine Lynx 2 anyway. The cables would be the least of my worries.
That's really interesting about Tom Scholz! Dunno if I'd be up for following in his "footsteps" though:p

Another question: Has ANYONE come across an MX-70 with an SMPTE card installed? They are mentioned breifly in the manuals but there's no details on them or part numbers. My machine does have an XLR socket in the right expansion panel (looking from the back) but I'd say it's a DIY mod. Any light on this would be great!

As you can see I can't find the delete button:-) Obviously a newbie!
 
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awesome score! what's "ghost noise" ?

my otari mx-5050 has some sort of way to control the capstan speed externally, but I'm not exactly sure how it works, cuz it doesn't have any input for it...just a switch on the motherboard. I guess I could trace it but I just trust the internal 'clock' so to speak.

Anyway, I am thinking to just get a 16-track machine if that's what you want. !
 
vinyvamos said:
That's really interesting about Tom Scholz! Dunno if I'd be up for following in his "footsteps" though:p
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:D:D:D If nothing else it’s a way to get your foot in the door of synchronization... plus it really keeps you on your toes creatively speaking. :D:D:D
 
Ha you're dead right Beck!:D It'd be a bit like beat matching with a pair of turntables. Tried it once. My brother's into that so maybe I could employ him as Tape Synchronizer & Operator while I do the mixing etc!:cool:Knowing him though he'd only do it if I laid down two phat Drum & Bass tracks on the machines. Not out of the question though!:D

For FALKEN:
Yea it was a great find! I went over to England to look at the two and decide which one to take but when I saw em I just HAD to buy both! Broke the bank to do it but it was worth it! They arrived to the studio last night.

The "Ghost noise" or as some frustrated people have called it on the forums, the F**KING WIND SOUND, can be caused by a number of parts on the amp cards in these machines. I'm reading up on it as I type. The main cause appears to be the relays and there are three of them on each card. I'm not sure of their exact function yet though as the person who sold me my ebay-bought cd manual decided to kindly leave out the schematics:mad:

As regards the 16 track road It'd be a good option for me cos converting the MX-70 to 16 tracks would mean no need to sync anything unless I wanted to sync to my DAW. What multitrack do you have at the moment Falken?
 
Fostex E-16, Otari MX5050-III-8, Otari MX5050-III-4... that sucks about the F***KING WIND SOUND. I am recording an album on the 8 track now...its not that bad only having 8 tracks.
 
FALKEN said:
Fostex E-16, Otari MX5050-III-8, Otari MX5050-III-4... that sucks about the F***KING WIND SOUND. I am recording an album on the 8 track now...its not that bad only having 8 tracks.
Click to expand...

You have some nice machines there! I can never get over how well the Otaris are built! My next machine will hopefully be a 2-track Otari for mastering to.

What kind of music is the album you're recording? Yea I've managed to get great sound recently just recording live to the 38 (8 tracks) with everything in the one room. I saturated the tape loads though which gave some print-through. The guy I was recording with really liked the effect the print-through had though so it was a happy accident!:D

Also thanks Beck for the links! I'd say I'll source my relays from Radionics or Farnell here in Ireland though.
 
-yeah the machines are pretty good! And, I just scored a *brand new* headstock for the 1/2" 4-track!

-sort of stoner punk metal heavy stuff.

-print through from being too hot? I might be getting some of that now....

is this common? I thought print through comes from like, later on after the tape has been stored. ?
 
Interestin article JP! So it doesn't matter how hot your signal is then? That's what I gathered from the first page anyway. I dunno why I've only noticed it on this recording though. I distinctly remember having a Rage Against The Machine album on copied cassette once that had severe print-through. So much that you could hear the intro to the next song before it started. I thought it was great at the time!:D It is quite a "ghostly" effect!:eek:

So Stoner Punk Metal Falken? Interestin! It'd be interestin to hear the final mixes when you're finished! I have a punk band myself and that's the main reason for buying the Otari cos we wanna cut our second album this Summer. Totally analog from start to Vinyl Scratch. That's if we can find a pressing plant that still accepts 1/4" master tapes!:confused:

On a different note I've sourced replacement relays for the MX-70 cards. For anyone needing to know in the future, the OMRON part# is G6E-134P-US-5. These are sealed and cost about 4 euro a piece. There's 3 of them per card so that means 24 for the full 8 cards. It's probably only a certain one on each card that's causing the "ghost noise" but I'll replace them all anyway.
 
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