Survey: Good Recording Engineers

  • Thread starter Thread starter darnold
  • Start date Start date
D

darnold

New member
This is a survey that anyone is welcome to share their ideas. What makes a recording engineer a good recording engineer? What skills does a good engineer have that makes them a good engineer. What seperates the best engineers from the average engineers? Or anything else that you can think of.

I cannot tell you all the details of why i am doing this survey. But it is to help somone who doesnt understand the recording world to get a more vivid idea on what a good recording engineer is. Please be honest with your opinions. A good variety of musicians, home studio engineers, big studio engineers would be best. Also the more the better. This might also turn out to be a very interesting thread and it might be information that everyone needs to know.

What would help is if everyone started there thread out with an introduction to themselves. Tell what you do (musician, engineer, etc) and your experience or anything you would like to tell about yourself. This will let us know what each group of people on this forum look for. Then share your opinion in as much detail as you can and anything you can think of saying.

The more the better, and i really think this will turn out to be quite interesting.

Have fun!

Danny
 
what makes a good engineer?

well, i can tell you what people are going to say to that. all of the proud, egotistical people are going to be listing all the things that they do. and all the not-so-confident people are going to list all the things that they think they could be better at.

it's an interesting survey, but unfortunately the responses are (for the most part) going to be inherently flawed by huge personal bias.
 
also, i thought i would sketch a graph showing a phenomenon i've observed.
 

Attachments

  • ego.webp
    ego.webp
    5.2 KB · Views: 310
heh. you are probably right :D



Just need some support to help this person realize what this business is all about.

Danny
 
Alright, I'm Keith and if you want to know anything about me, feel free to go here: www.moonunitsound.com Pretty boring stuff, though, I gotta' warn ya. :D

My personal feeling on the matter . . . and this is just one asshole's opinion, so take it for what it's worth . . .


I think what it really takes (to be a good engineer) is almost exactly the same as what it takes to be really good at anything else. Dedication, a positive attitude, and an enormous drive and passion for it.

Moreso than with other things, I believe it takes a little bit more fanaticism. :D And by fanaticism I mean as it applies to audio. Most of the really good ones (engineers) out there are probably a little dishevled and/or rough in appearance because they spend so damn much time worrying about more "important" things that have to do with their gear; how to get better reverb tails, whether to go XY or spaced pair, or just pondering how to get better mixes. And they just don't have time to worry about getting their hair cut, clean their apartment or whatever. :D

I think there's definitely a dorky side to it all, too. You gotta' be at least a little bit of a dork. I mean the way good engineers talk about audio gear is rather similar to how computer dorks talk about processor speed, firewalls, networking, etc. And every year, they congregate to their AE conventions . . . not unlike the Trekie's pilgrimage to their Sci-fi conventions and what not.

The whole ego thing can actually be good . . . or it can be bad. I hate to say it, but too many people are going to test your self-confidence, and if your ego can't take it, you're finished. I guess I should explain a little further: audio engineers and producers are often in a position where they are blamed for the shortcomings of other people.

God forbid, sometimes it might even be your fault and you just do something that sucks. :D It happens. On one hand, really good engineers NEVER want to suck, but if they do, they won't get too down over it because they have confidence in their abilities. And their perfectionism will naturally kick in anyway, which just forces them to obsess over what went wrong, and how they're going to fix it next time.

Furthermore, good engineers really let their confidence show. Sometimes it just kinda' exudes from them. Granted, you don't want to come accross as arrogant, but even that's better than appearing unsure. If not, then you'll quickly lose respect of the artist or the producer or whomever -- And this will hinder you in getting things done, because people will constantly ask: "Why do you wanna' do that?" Look like you're confident and in control, and they won't ask. :D That's probably true of any profession.

Good engineers are also patient, because they have to be. I don't even think I have to explain that. I mean, it's taken me at least a couple year's worth of experimentation to where I can really hear compression; as in I can listen to things on the radio and say "That vocal has a really fast attack and a slow release on it." That kind of thing. Learning your monitors and how mixes translate on different systems takes an unbelievable amount of trial and error time.

If you start out as a studio as an assistant, it takes time and patience to work your way up. Once you make your way up the ladder, it takes time and patience to build a reputation and to get a name for yoursefl, etc. Everything about the profession takes patience.

But in summary, it just takes a fanatical drive . . . and someone of unusual determination to put in the necessary hours of experimentation and trial and error involved with reproducing good audio. I don't think a lot of people have even the faintest understanding of what all is really involved or what they're getting in to. Good ones have the patience, drive, and confidence.
 
Last edited:
Outstanding post chessrock.

I will add:

Ed Rei. Started playing music in 1975 (violin...moved on to drums, then guitar...). 2 years of college studying music (performance). Some electrical training in the Army. Started engineering about 15 years ago (live at first....about 12 years of recording....the last 8 seriously). Currently a First Engineer at a studio, and a Lead Engineer (live mixing) and live recording engineer for a sound company, and hold two house mixing positions at night clubs. In the past, I owned my own studio. Messed that up with a combination of undiciplined business practices and an absent co-owner!

It helps if you don't mind being broke for periods of time, then diving into a project for 10-16 hours a day and make bank, which you will blow on your "other" hobby, which seems to be off-road bicycles for recording engineers for some reason! LOL (mine? can't afford a "other" hobby because my girlfriend always finds a way to spend my extra money for me!)

Also, you must have excellent retention of minute events. You might be working on one thing, find a tone that sounds great, but for another type of production, and will need to remember that later. Sounds weird, but all the good engineers I know can remember how they got certain tones vividly (we all also forget a lot of stuff!)

I think vision is also important. This sounds very vague and it really is. But you must be able to hear a song once and have a sonic vision for it, and you must be able to keep that sonic vision foremost in your mind, because in the waning hours of a session, it is easy to just start recording whatever "almost" works, and not fight for what you had in mind sonically for the song.

Did I mention that having decent hearing is important?

I don't know that I can add anything else that chessrock hasn't already touched on. I agree that patience, dedication, and drive are VERY important. Having outstanding people skills helps a lot! When you do this for a profession, you HAVE to make clients happy first. That is the bottom line to staying busy enough to do this for a "living".

I agree that a certain amount of "ego" is important too. Your self-confidence WILL be challenged by other engineers, producers, clients, and your mom! You have to be able to take all comments, good and bad with a grain of salt and move on. I find it amazing how even two good engineers can disagree on whether something sounds good or not.

I wish pipelineaudio was still posting here. He is a fine engineer, has worked for named producers on named band major label releases, and would have some interesting things to add I am sure.

John Sayers would have some excellent insight into this too.

Ed
 
I just saw the documentary on Tom Dowd, I think it was on the sundance channel, if you haven't seen it you should make every effort to. I also think you'll be getting a lot of personal views and should be intresting, I'm with chessrock on the broad sweeping statements, you've got to love it and be open minded... to be great, your attitude has as much if not more affect then your mechanical skills.
 
Aside from technical and other aspects that were already excellently pointed-out by Ed and Keith, a good engineer must also be a diplomat.

They need to have the ability to listen to clients and translate they artistic vision onto recording media.

(This is also the role of the producer in more organized settings, but for smaller studios like mine - I have to interact directly with the band on capturing their vision on tape.)

And of course, the other part of diplomacy is being able to defuse any volatile situations that may occur when creative personalities clash.

Self-confidence is also hugely important -- you have to be able to sell yourself to clients -- show them what you will bring to the table for their projects and if you can't do that - either because of lack of gear/facilities or lack of talent - then you will fail. It also isn't even about the gear... if you have a 4-track and can show potential clients that you can use it to realize their vision, then you can succeed! (of course, I exaggerrate slightly to make my point...!)
 
sonusman said:


It helps if you don't mind being broke for periods of time, then diving into a project for 10-16 hours a day and make bank, which you will blow on your "other" hobby, which seems to be off-road bicycles for recording engineers for some reason!
Ed
Click to expand...

By gosh..... your right? I was stuck in a quandry just recently... replace the Hedshock on the Cannondale or FMC RNP? Holy Mackiemixers Ed! You think a girlfriend takes money...try a wife and 2 daughters! There is a reason the studio is locked with an alarm and I watch Ebay to see if they have sold me out :)

SoMm
 
Some of us reside "in the city," so we don't have to worry about the whole off-road bike thing. :D Our girlfriends are more than able to pick up the slack, though.
 
Good engineer

Lot's of patience.

Knowledge of what each piece of equipment can and can not do(especially mics and effects).

Diplomacy--how to tell some idiot "I don't care what Dimebag Darrel uses, this is what works" with out offending him.


A good set of ears. Old rockers are generally lousy engineers since they are half deaf from the amps.
 
Very good thread so far. Just what i was looking for.

Just wonna keep things going by throwing in some ideas.

What about versatility? Is a good engineer just good at one type of music or is a good engineer someone who understands sound enough, that he can put together anything that is brought to him?

We brought up the importance of gear. If you are a professional, is it worth getting a protools system and all the extra rack gear?

It would be good to get alot of musicians views in here also. As a musician, and you were looking for a studio to record your work. What would you look for in an engineer? When do you decide just to do it yourself or to drive out of state just to get a better recording?

Lets keep it goin!

Danny
 
Please remember to also mention stuff as if you were talking to someone who knew VERY LITTLE about the recording industry.

Danny
 
Hah, im really not trying to run up my post counts but i just thought of something else.

What does it take for a good engineer to do a really good recording? What type of equipment? What kind of talent? And how much inolvement is to the band?

Danny
 
Well, I think it's most important that he knows and/or is very familiar with the equipment he's working with. That seems to be the key . . . and that's why you'll see a lot of these guys hauling a lot of their own stuff along to whatever facility they might be using on that project. And hopefully, whatever they already have there in terms of consoles and what not, the Engineer will have some familiarity with it and feel comfortable working it.

I probably sound like a broken record on this because I've said it so many times . . . but I think bad engineers focus too much on their own equipment/tools or lack thereof, and not enough on the tools the musicians are using.

And this really comes down to how much recording experience the musician has. The ones with a lot of experience in the studio probably already know what sounds good on tape/disk (Hint: Those are the guys you really like to work with). The ones that don't are kind of dangerous -- to themselves and others. :D The reason I say this is because they don't necessarily know that microphones hear things differently than we do. Rooms hear things differently, and live venues hear things waaaaay differently than a studio does.

These are the guys that you usually find in the recording forum starting threads like: "I just bought an Avalon U5 and I stll can't get a great bass sound." :D Well, good for you for picking out a good DI, but what condition are your pickups in? When was the last time you had it set up? And when was the last time you changed the foakin' strings, man ? ? ? ! ! :D

And there's also a lot of technique issues, like where are you picking in relation to the pickups? Directly over them? Underneath? These are things that make a big difference in the sound, if you can believe it.

This is an area where I could really improve, and in that sense, I'm not as good of an engineer as I'd like to be . . . but a good engineer should really ask a lot of questions: "What kind of sound are you after?" "Does your current instrument get you that sound?" "What condition is your gear in, and how well has it been maintained?"

Example: A couple years ago, I didn't have a clue as to what different amplifiers sounded like. I just figured my job was to point a mic at whatever it is the guitarist plugged in to, and if it didn't sound right, it was their fault. :D Turns out I had one client that was after a really heavy, overdriven sound. Guy brings in a Peavey Classic 30 amp and his distortion pedal, I point the mic and record about an hour's worth of shit sandwich.

What I should have done is asses the situation . . . guy is looking for overdriven sound . . . brings in Classic 30 ? ? ? No guy. Let's rent you a Marshall or a Mesa from Andy's Music. It'll only cost you like 30-40 bucks for the day, maybe even two. And this is not a knock at all at the Classic 30, by the way, which is a great amp for blues. Good for blues as in not for heavy distortion. :D

Anyway, my point is that a good engineer should understand musician's gear as well as their own. Know what sounds good, and what sounds like ass. And try and use that knowlege to help the musician select and properly use the appropriate gear fot the sound they're after.

Another thing to keep in mind when working with gear is to understand their style. I'll give you another example: If you know the singer's vocal style, you can probably narrow down a lot of your vocal mic choices right away. If he/she sings very aggressively, for example, and really annunciates his/her consonants with force . . . then you might not want to use a condenser mic. :D Or at least not one that exaggerates some of the higher frequencies.

So in summary, I think familiarity is the key. The good engineer will be one who is comfortable with his own gear and the musician's, knows how to adapt it to the situation, and maps out a gear "strategy" with the client ahead of time, understanding the type of sounds they are striving for.
 
Great reply chessrock. Exactly what im looking for.

Do you feel an engineer that has had most of his experience in rock, alternative, heavy metal, country, etc can also be just as good doing classical, piano, jazz, etc?

Danny
 
God, what a HUGE question.
Just a few impressions-
A good engineer gets the most out of whatever gear is available, unstead of bitching about what he doesn't have.
A good engineer listens to the source. Not just the music, but what his client has to say.
Like a great psychologist, a good engineer knows how to tell someone they're wrong without saying they are wrong.
The obvious- A good engineer has the ears to hear what changes in technique and mic selection/placement are making in the music.
Mostly, a good engineer makes the musician a participant in the creative process, leaving them with the feeling that they are jointly responsible for the outcome.

I new I had a good guy when I was working with my tracking consultant, Aidas Kupcinskas. I needed a consultant due to moderate hearing disability and lack of experience. We were tracking acoustic guitar. He comes out with, "Jesus, what's that ticking sound? It sounds like a grandfather clock!- Oh- lose the watch." I never could have tracked this project without his input. -Richie
 
Darnold,

You asked:

"What makes a recording engineer a good recording engineer? What skills does a good engineer have that makes them a good engineer. What seperates the best engineers from the average engineers?"

Although I know you are trying to find the answers to your questions, you are also asking for the definition of a good recording engineer. I am sure, as soon as it is clearly defined, as I see it is slowly being so in the replies, the answer to what makes one good one will come forth.

Maybe when knowing the function or functions or purpose(s) of the engineer is laid down or agreed upon, then we could discuss the qualities, training and mindset would be needed to be a good one.

my 2 pennies IMHO
 
Yes. So far this thread has been very good and has answered most of the questions that i had. It doesnt seem to be progressing much farther or as far as i had hoped. I thought this would be a good thread to help people figure out what they need to work on, whether it was technical skills, people skills, training, etc. It will help people know what direction they need to head. Of course im sure its different for every person.

Does a good sound engineer have to attend school? Can he learn most of the stuff by himself or is there stuff that they miss? What does it take to make it to the top? Is it more important to be a business man or an artist?

Just thought i would bring up a few more questions to help get to some conclusions.

Danny
 
tons of stuff...

I will just list off some stuff i think a good engineer should have/be...


they need to be patient
have a great ear for not only mixing, but for pitch and dynamics
they should have a very creative mind. I believe any engineer should be able to act as a producer too!
they must be very familiar with their mics and just overall tools of the trade.
they need experience and just to have messed around with all styles of music and possbile ways to record.
but most of all just have to love what they do so the drive is there to do a great job!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top