alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
DJL said:
So you work in a high level studio all day with all those high level mics? So then, you think you know what you are talking about.....
So you work in a high level studio all day with all those high level mics? So then, you think you know what you are talking about.....
Ronan
New member
Brent Casey said:
No this is not exactly what I am saying. I am saying that I have done shoot outs with various mics on various sources including some of the studio projects mics. The impression as I stated was that the SP mics were not "bad' mics" but they lacked the depth and clarity of some of the other mics they were competing against that cost a bit more (Shure KSM32, Microtech-Geffell UM70S, Audio Technical 4060), but the SB beat the MXL mics hands down. All listening test were blind tests.
We (myself and a fairly succesful film scoring mixer in LA) set up this shoot out because of all the great things we were hearing about the SP mics, that they were amazing and for a really cheap price could compete head to head with mics costing 5 or 10 times as much. We both left with the same conclusion. The SP mics were very good entry level mics, but did not compete head to head with more expensive mic. This in itself is a complement since historicly the choices for entry level condensors were crap mics by CAD, Rode etc that just butchered records.
I occasionally rant against some gear on this forum, but the SP mics are certainly "not" a product I would rant against because they do a fair job at a good price. I just rant against products that I see working "against" records. The SP mics are kind of like getting a really good deal on a Honda Accord. A really good solid car, but if some one said it had the same performance as a BMW X3 for the price of the Honda, it might be something you would want to look into.
Ronan
New member
I do not agree with this at all. There are companies doing great work these days, making some really strong products at great rates. The point of this discussion is that many people beleive that the SP do stand up next to more expensive mics. The guy that inspired me to try them out said that they were just as good as his Neuman U87s. I thought they were OK mics, but did not come to the same conclusion. But there are times when less expensive mics beat the more expensive counterpart. I have had a Shure KSM32 beat out a well maintained Neuman U47 on som vocalist. Some times a cheap Joe Meek Mic pre will have the grit and character to make a track stand out better than my expensive boutique mic pres.OneRoomStudios said:
Well first off I was not complaining that they sounded like a "project studio" mic, it was just an observation. But in regards to the rest of this comment, I had the idea that the object of this board was to help people recording at home to make great recordings. I am not a fan of the idea that if some one is recording at home they need to be ghetto-ized into the realm of bad to mediocre gear. If some one found a beautiful AKG C-12 on the steet on their way home from work, should they no longer participate on this board?OneRoomStudios said:
A few folks on this board know a bit about my background. I have not owned a home studio in many years. I own a commercial studio and I work in studios all over the world, from tiny home studios to some of the most expensive studios ever built. Some times with famous folks, sometimes with not famous at all. I also in my spare time run a program designed to teach people "home recording", and participating on these forums allows me to pass on a little of what I know, as well as educate myself more about what home recordists are going through so that I can be a better teacher and focus my programs to bettter suits peoples needs.
What I try to educate people to do is to make smart choices about the gear they buy, and to spend money in ways that will help them make the best possible recordings. It all starts with the mics! Its always sad to see some one that has spent $1500 on plug ins but does not own a really good mic and then they wonder why their tracks do not sound good.
The best home recording is not a direct competition to big studios, but an entirely different beasts that can make great recordings that could have never been done in a big studio. If you are creative and know some fundementals and have a few good quality tools, you can make the most amazing records at home.
The project I just finished last week was in a multimillion dollar studio in the mountains, but the project I am prepping for now will be in Italy in a home studio built over a carriage house. we are recording on a half inch 8 track with no computers or digital gear. I am more excited about it than any project I have done this year.
Ronan
New member
Gidge said:sic ' em Brent
i hate gear snobs.....
I think this is directed at me. No problem, but you might want to look at some of my other post. I am that insane old guy that keeps telling people they should be buying a 4 track cassettes and a bunch of Shure SM57s.
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DJL
Self Banned
Your Studio Projects mics are cheap Chinese made budget mics... period.alanhyatt said:
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Gidge
Lapdance Test Dummy
DJL said:
the list grows for the blind listening test....
Ronan
Chessrock
DJL
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Harvey Gerst
New member
Well, I would put up a Studio Projects T3 against some major name mics costing 5 times as much (and I don't own or have any SP mics). I'm seriously considering the T3 on my short list of mic buys. It was the most impressive of all the SP mics I listened to.Gidge said:
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Han
New member
I'm afraid we're going to have another SP bashing thread here?
The SP B1 is my cheapest LDC, the Neumann M149 is my most expensive LCD.
I was recording an upright bass with both the SP B1 and the Neumann, the player and me prefered the sound of the B1.
Does this mean that the SP B1 is a better mic than the Neumann M149? I think not and someone who does must be dumb indeed.
The M149 sounds more airy and better IMHO on most vocals, but to say that the SP B1 is a cheap Chinese condenser mic, only good for home recording is unfair.
The M149 costs 40 times the price of a B1 and it sounds only a little better on a number of applications. This makes the SP B1 more than a 'cheap' Chinese condenser microphone, it makes the B1 a big bang for the buck, period!
And yes my dear friends, I'm recording some big names in music, with the SP B1 on amped guitars, on bass amps, on acoustic instruments and on drums.
The SP B1 is my cheapest LDC, the Neumann M149 is my most expensive LCD.
I was recording an upright bass with both the SP B1 and the Neumann, the player and me prefered the sound of the B1.
Does this mean that the SP B1 is a better mic than the Neumann M149? I think not and someone who does must be dumb indeed.
The M149 sounds more airy and better IMHO on most vocals, but to say that the SP B1 is a cheap Chinese condenser mic, only good for home recording is unfair.
The M149 costs 40 times the price of a B1 and it sounds only a little better on a number of applications. This makes the SP B1 more than a 'cheap' Chinese condenser microphone, it makes the B1 a big bang for the buck, period!
And yes my dear friends, I'm recording some big names in music, with the SP B1 on amped guitars, on bass amps, on acoustic instruments and on drums.
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ozraves
New member
flesh5thdog said:
My experience was that the B3 could be a decent vocal mic with unusual voices that didn't tend to come across well on the usual suspect mics. I think the C1 can be a solid vocal mic for the price on many male vocals.
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chessrock
Banned
Some of you guys seem to think that if someone doesn't go off and jizz all over themselves saying: "Oh my God, Studio Projects are freakin' AMAAAAZING! ! ! GREATEST mics EVER ! ! ! ! "
. . . that they're bashing them.
Too funny.
Now Gidge has his little listening test. Some of you guys are kind of dense. No, I take that back. Simple-minded would be more accurate. It's kinda' cute.
. . . that they're bashing them.
Too funny.
Now Gidge has his little listening test. Some of you guys are kind of dense. No, I take that back. Simple-minded would be more accurate. It's kinda' cute.
Ronan
New member
For what its worth, I have a mic that I bought at the "99cent only store" (an american store where everything cost less than a dollar. Your mic choices where red or blue. I chose red. It ends up on records because it sounds awful and sometimes that's just what the track needs to sound "great"
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DJL
Self Banned
And from reading many many of your other post on this forum and others I've been under the impression YOU were not really impressed with any Studio Projects mics other than the T3... is this correct or not?Harvey Gerst said:
For example... http://recpit.prosoundweb.com/viewtopic.php?t=12247&sid=e52a9bad9667c07648bf9cc7886794d0
Question by bgavin...
I've read a whole lot of praise for the Studio Projects B3, and very little opposition. A commendable commentary.
I'm mulling over a pair of B3 for their multi-pattern abilities, especially the omni mode. What I'd like to know is, what uses they would see as general purpose work horses.
I own a pair of C4, an AT4040, and MXL V67M. The two LDC are primarily for voice, and the C4 for SDC applications. Are there good uses for a pair of B3, or would I be wasting money better spent elsewhere?
What does ITR use the B3 for? I'm hunting for education on LDC multi-pattern mics.
Your answer...
Except for the RCA 77DX, we don't own any multi-pattern mics. Not because we don't want to, that's just how it happened to work out.
Of all the SP mics we tested, the T3 was the best of the bunch.
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DJL
Self Banned
God I love that... and so fricken true too.Ronan said:
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DJL
Self Banned
Good post Han... and there is no reason to have any bashing type threads if we all learn to let everyone express their opinions.Han said:
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DJL
Self Banned
I think when someone comes to our mic forum and ask everyone what we think... they want everyones opinion... not just a one sided story. I know I like to hear the pro's and con's... good or bad. And it's about time we let everyone express their opinion (even if we disagree) without being flamed or some distributor trying discredited them and etc.
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Lambo
Banned
I just ordered the C1.
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Harvey Gerst
New member
Not exactly. As with the MXL line (where I found some outstanding mics), I felt the T3 was outstanding, the C1 was similar enough to the V67 (to the point where I think I said "if you already have a C1, you don't need the V67, and vice versa"). And I said the V67 had more of "an old German mic sound" than most of the low cost mics I'd heard, so the C1 with a little eq would be similar.DJL said:
I found what I believed were two "dud's" in the MXL line: the 2001 (way too bright and harsh), and the 600 (muffled).
I didn't find any "duds" in the SP line. (I havent heard the LSD or the C4's from SP. so I can't comment on those.)
Is the C1 a replacement for a U87? Not in my book, but it might work better than a U87 on some voices. So will a V67G - on some voices.
Both companies (SP and MXL) offer some great values in mics and can be used in many of the same traditional applications as a lot higher dollar mics - often with better results.
I would buy a multi-pattern T3 for the studio before I would buy a U87 (unless someone wanted to sell me a U87 for $600 or so). If I could find a Neumann U67 for cheap, I'd buy it before any of the above. I'll bet Alan Hyatt would too.
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protein
New member
I have a mic I made out of a pair of crap headphones and a bit of vacuum a cleaner tube when I was 16. I quite like using it on the occasional screamy vocal.
Not that that's important or even interesting.
I'll get my coat...
Not that that's important or even interesting.
I'll get my coat...
OneRoomStudios
New member
Ronan: I appriciate that you are trying to help the home recordist make the best recordings possible. Thank you. I am sure the people you help benefit greatly. I wish I had the time/money to have someone teach me all that I don't know.
I think the reason we are in disagreement is because we are looking at these microphones in two very different ways. I may be alone in how I see these mics, but I will try to explain my view of them so you can better understand how I, as a someone who records at home, sees them. I see mics like the B1 and C1 (as well as the MXL's of the same level and other "good" cheap mics) as the best I can afford. A C1 is just out my price range right now, and I am saving up to buy mic that is at that level or similar (have to go audition them to see which one I like). So when people such as yourself say things like "well a C1 is ok, but you should really go get a [insert expensive mic here]" it doesn't help me. It's true, I could save up longer, and eventually get a better mic and therefore better results, but then I can't record now.
I can understand that many of you have been through this very same perdicament when you were starting out, and now, looking back you see how much money you could have saved if you had just waited and saved up a little longer and bought mics that would last you a lifetime. It makes sense to think like that. But if you had spent all that time saving up, and not recording and learning new tricks with the cheap mics that you bought, your recording skills wouldn't be where they are today. I think expirience and knowlege are more important than gear when it comes to recording, and there's no way I'm going to get the expirience unless I do a lot of recording now. So I'll buy the best mic I can afford (a cheap one) and do as much as i can with it.
Comparing the C1 to much more expensive mics is interesting, but it doesn't help the avg home recordist. I think maybe because you have the privilege of using beautiful and expensive mics you tend to think of mics like the C1 as just another "flavor." True, it may sound better than an original C12 in some instances, but that's only because of it's "effect." Unfortunately when comparisons like this are made, some people think the two are equal and make bad choices because of it.....
Ok I'm going to stop ranting now, sorry,
-Peter
I think the reason we are in disagreement is because we are looking at these microphones in two very different ways. I may be alone in how I see these mics, but I will try to explain my view of them so you can better understand how I, as a someone who records at home, sees them. I see mics like the B1 and C1 (as well as the MXL's of the same level and other "good" cheap mics) as the best I can afford. A C1 is just out my price range right now, and I am saving up to buy mic that is at that level or similar (have to go audition them to see which one I like). So when people such as yourself say things like "well a C1 is ok, but you should really go get a [insert expensive mic here]" it doesn't help me. It's true, I could save up longer, and eventually get a better mic and therefore better results, but then I can't record now.
I can understand that many of you have been through this very same perdicament when you were starting out, and now, looking back you see how much money you could have saved if you had just waited and saved up a little longer and bought mics that would last you a lifetime. It makes sense to think like that. But if you had spent all that time saving up, and not recording and learning new tricks with the cheap mics that you bought, your recording skills wouldn't be where they are today. I think expirience and knowlege are more important than gear when it comes to recording, and there's no way I'm going to get the expirience unless I do a lot of recording now. So I'll buy the best mic I can afford (a cheap one) and do as much as i can with it.
Comparing the C1 to much more expensive mics is interesting, but it doesn't help the avg home recordist. I think maybe because you have the privilege of using beautiful and expensive mics you tend to think of mics like the C1 as just another "flavor." True, it may sound better than an original C12 in some instances, but that's only because of it's "effect." Unfortunately when comparisons like this are made, some people think the two are equal and make bad choices because of it.....
Ok I'm going to stop ranting now, sorry,
-Peter
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DJL
Self Banned
OneRoomStudios, checkout what Harvey said above about the C1 and Marshall MXL V67... and the V67G ($99.95) cost half as much as the C1 ($199.95).