Studio Projects C4

[Flatpicker]

That wasn't my opinion, ...

DJL,
The words "Yeah, the Behringer B5 comes with both capsules and just like with the SP C4 you know your getting a 797 Audio built mic... and you don't have to spend any extra money for it" may mean something different to you, but to me it reeks with insinuation of the B5 being a clone of the C4. I realize that others may not have taken it that way, which is why I ask if it was just me.

Actually, regardless of what others think, you are giving an assessment, opinion, or whatever via insinuations about two mics you, to my knowledge, have never held in your hands – much less heard! That can very damaging to the other parties involved if you happen to be wrong. And, it’s speculation like this that makes us question whether or not you are trying to damage some of these "other parties" (the "agenda" harvey was referring to in another post), while puting up a front of “helping” others.

Now, if you want your opinion to hold some weight, get the darn mics, run some listening test, tell us what you think. I know you have some nice pres and mics and I would attribute great value that opinion, but all this shooting off about where they are made and how they look is ridiculous!

 

[Flatpicker]

...And that's how Behringer probably "developed" the B5.

Everyone, read Harvey's post. It's probably closer to the truth than anything on this entire thread. (That, of course is pure speculation on my part, but hey, I can have an opinion too, can't I? )

 

[DJL]

I'm sure Alan thought that 797 had stabbed him in the back at first, but he found out later that the Behringer and the C4 are not that similar.

When did he find this out, and what does "not that similar" mean? It was only about two days ago when Alan posted the "Almost everybody knows the B5 is a clone of the C4" statement that got deleated.

Lemme tell ya how marketing works: The Behringer marketing and research team are all sitting around a meeting table when someone says, "What would be good new product for us to sell?". Somebody says, "Hey, there's a big market for low priced, small diaphragm, multi-capsule mics that we haven't hit. Look at the success of Oktava, Rode, and Studio Projects". Somebody else says, "Okay, let's do one. Contact 797 and see what they can supply us at $X price point".

And that's how Behringer probably "developed" the B5.

I don't know... but your probably right, and if I was Alan I'd be mad as hell about it too.

Anyway, the point is (while keeping Alan's theme in mind)... if someone wants a mic with features like the C4 but can't afford it, there is the Behringer B5.

 

[Richard Monroe]

I think this is a bit of a catch-22 here. DJL is correct when he says that the Behringer is a possible low-cost alternative to the C-4's, or the NT-5, just as are MXL 603 and MC012, which fall solidly in the market segment of the B-5. That's the real competition.
The problem is, it's hard to find an AE with decent ears who wants to buy a cheap shot Chinese cosmetic copy of a perfectly good Chinese-American hybrid mic. Therefore, nobody with a worthy opinion can tell you whether these mics are similar enough to be even comparable, beyond the housing. DJL is also correct when he says Alan has every right to be pissed off about it. Unfortunately, I don't hold out much faith that any semblance of justice will occur anywhere near a Chinese courtroom. They say he who dines with the devil uses a long-handled spoon. And of course, like the Palestinians and the Israelis, you continue to bait Alan. It is sooo tedious. Get over it.-Richie

 

[Han]

I'm afraid I have to stick up for DJL. I also have read that post of Alan about the B5/C4 thing.

It was on a thread at Studio Forums where Alan posted on feb 25 something like: everybody knows the B5 is a clone of the C4 and that hasn't done anything good to the relation SP/797, or words with the same meaning.

I regret I didn't copy it to my PC, so I could have pasted it here to proove DJL is right.

It was a thread that was ment to bash DJL and make a fool of him and Alan too said something not so nice about the guy.

After I'd made a comment about the fact that I have problems with this behaviour, talking bad behind someone's back, the thread got deleted.

If anybody thinks I'm an asshole, please say so, but do it here and not somewhere else.

I hope Alan has the balls to confirm.

 

[CanopuS]

All this speculation. Aren't we meant to "try" before we buy? Considering how many people tell the newbs that, maybe we should try both mics before we judge them?

 

[Harvey Gerst]

I think Alan first made those statements when he learned that Behringer was getting "similar" mics from 797 and he didn't know what was inside them, or if they were indeed clones. I think he found out later that they were not clones and pulled his rant posts. The B5 has a 6 micron diaphragm; the C4 has a 3 micron diaphragm.

In my opinion, Behringer didn't decide to just go after Alan by coming out with a small diaphragm mic; they're going after that whole multi-capsule, small diaphragm mic market, which also includes Oktava and Rode.

Let's face it; if any of you worked for Behringer and they asked you what should their mic line be, the usual answer is: a cardioid condenser, a tube condenser, a multi-pattern condenser, a tube multi-pattern condenser, and a small multi-capsule condenser.

This would not be rocket science on the part of any marketing department.

 

[CanopuS]

I'm afraid I have to stick up for DJL

Come on, its not all that bad

 

[alanhyatt]

To the group:

I make no bones about posting a reply to the thread that was on Studio Forums, but I sure the hell did not take it down.... Ask them to put it back up.

The thread was about Dot and DJL, but I don't remember what it was named. Everyone on Studio Forums was ripping DJL a new asshole(what else is new), calling him this name and that name because of some thing DJL and Dot got into on HR or some other forum over the C4's and B5's. So I posted a reply there and said that I agree with them! So what! It was all out in the open...

The problem is, the entire thread is no longer there. Someone at Studio Forums took it down...NOT ME...There are only two people there who have the power to pull that down. I can't pull an entire thread there, and I did not pull my reply.

So if you all want to know what was on that thread so badly, you will have to get in touch with Steve Langer and Dan Richards at Studio Forums, as they are the only ones who could remove the thread...

The problem is, you all let DJL pull the wool over your eyes.

To DJL:

It is exactly this that pisses me off about you. You get some information from out of the blue, then when you can't find the facts, you accuse me of taking some thread down without researching any of the facts. Just like you make so many bullshit claims here on HR without checking the facts. Your like a fucking bad meal DJL that continues to come back up 24 hours a day! The problem is, we have to keep tasting you...

So if you want to know what is on that thread, then call them up DJL... just get the hell off my back on this one already. I am happy to call you whatever names you would like me to call you to your face. I don't hide behind any thread. In fact, if you give me your address, I will be happy to come up to N. Cal, and tell it to your face directly so you can see me look you in the eye when I do. Just back off for a fucking change! We all know what your opinions are of me, and what your agenda is on my products. Put a sock in it already.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

So Alan, I guess this means you won't be posting pictures of the insides of a C4 anytime soon?

 

[DJL]

To the group:

I make no bones about posting a reply to the thread that was on Studio Forums, but I sure the hell did not take it down.... Ask them to put it back up.

The thread was about Dot and DJL, but I don't remember what it was named. Everyone on Studio Forums was ripping DJL a new asshole(what else is new), calling him this name and that name because of some thing DJL and Dot got into on HR or some other forum over the C4's and B5's. So I posted a reply there and said that I agree with them! So what! It was all out in the open...

The problem is, the entire thread is no longer there. Someone at Studio Forums took it down...NOT ME...There are only two people there who have the power to pull that down. I can't pull an entire thread there, and I did not pull my reply.

So if you all want to know what was on that thread so badly, you will have to get in touch with Steve Langer and Dan Richards at Studio Forums, as they are the only ones who could remove the thread...

The problem is, you all let DJL pull the wool over your eyes.

To DJL:

It is exactly this that pisses me off about you. You get some information from out of the blue, then when you can't find the facts, you accuse me of taking some thread down without researching any of the facts. Just like you make so many bullshit claims here on HR without checking the facts. Your like a fucking bad meal DJL that continues to come back up 24 hours a day! The problem is, we have to keep tasting you...

So if you want to know what is on that thread, then call them up DJL... just get the hell off my back on this one already. I am happy to call you whatever names you would like me to call you to your face. I don't hide behind any thread. In fact, if you give me your address, I will be happy to come up to N. Cal, and tell it to your face directly so you can see me look you in the eye when I do. Just back off for a fucking change! We all know what your opinions are of me, and what your agenda is on my products. Put a sock in it already.

I've gotten PM's and emails from people telling me they thought your were an asshole and other twisted names... but I didn't called you bad names in the PM's or emails... I didn't even agree with them... The point here is not if the C4 and B5 are incidental or not.... the point is that the B5 has features like the C4... you know the pad and rolloff switches, interchangeable capsules, hell both the B5 and C4 are even made by 797 Audio in China and etc... and the Behringer B5 may be a good choice for some who want a mic with features like the C4 but can't afford a C4. In my opinion, as I stated to you before... I'd buy good name brand mic that will last a life time and hold their value... but, that's just my opinion. If you can be civil... I've got some really good questions for you if you think you can handle it?

PS... one other thing, are you threatening me?

 

[ausrock]

I don't think he is threatening you DJ, so much as speaking publicly so there is no misunderstanding what he thinks.

How about you put up some of these many PM's and emails, etc., so we can all continue to be entertained.

 

[wilkee]

In my opinion, Behringer didn't decide to just go after Alan by coming out with a small diaphragm mic; they're going after that whole multi-capsule, small diaphragm mic market, which also includes Oktava and Rode.

Let's face it; if any of you worked for Behringer and they asked you what should their mic line be, the usual answer is: a cardioid condenser, a tube condenser, a multi-pattern condenser, a tube multi-pattern condenser, and a small multi-capsule condenser.

This would not be rocket science on the part of any marketing department.

And that probably is exactly how it happened. Behringer probably does not give a toss about SP, Rode etc. etc all it wants to do is flog gear ( like 99.9999% of commercial companies).

As this is a forum for homerecording I think that Behringer pitches most of its gear exactly at our market, yes there is way better out there.

If I was doing the F.O.H. mixing for say AC/DC instead of local bands I probably would not use Behringer gear at all but???

I wish a lot of pepes could just drop this conspiracy theory shit.

 

[Marik]

Gentlemen,

On and off I was trying to follow this one and got completely lost. Could somebody explain me--what's the point of all of this?

 

[crazydoc]

Gentlemen,

On and off I was trying to follow this one and got completely lost. Could somebody explain me--what's the point of all of this?

Marik -
We really wish you would pay better attention - this type of thing is the meat and guts of home recording.
The point of all this (not necessarily in order of importance) is:

1) DJL doesn't like Alan Hyatt or Studio Projects or PMI or anything to do with them, for reasons that no one has ever been able to ascertain.

2) Likewise Alan Hyatt doesn't like DJL, for DJ's many-times unprovoked, somewhat psychotic rants against all things Hyatt.

3) The SP C4 and the Behringer B5 look a lot alike and are made by the same company, and some folks have jumped to the conclusion that they are the same mic, without any more proof than that.

4) DJ doesn't think anyone should buy cheap mics - they should buy expensive ones that will become vintage mics and "hold their value." This of course doesn't keep him from vociferously expressing his opinions about cheap mics, even though he's never used them.

4) DJ thinks that Alan's dropping his prices on the C series is unfair to those who bought them at the higher price, and that Alan should keep the prices high.

5) DJ doesn't really have any "peeple skilz."

6) Chessrock is a connoisseur of asses.

7) Harvey smokes cheap light cigarettes, and it hasn't killed him yet.

Hope this helps bring you up to speed, Marik. Please pay better attention in the future.

 

[Flatpicker]

...4) DJ doesn't think anyone should buy cheap mics - they should buy expensive ones that will become vintage mics and "hold their value." This of course doesn't keep him from vociferously expressing his opinions about cheap mics, even though he's never used them...

He's used some cheap mics, but thought they were "cheap crap", so he sold them and bought expensive mics that hold their market value.

...6) Chessrock is a connoisseur of asses...

LOL!

 

[freshmattyp]

How exactly are we defining "Holding Value"? I just sold a mic that I bought new for $39.99 for $35.00. That mic retained about 87.5% of its value. I bought another used mic for $200, which streets for $379, or 52% of the original cost.

What does all this mean? Not a damn thing. Used gear cost runs anywhere form 50-66% of original street price. That's the rule of thumb I use. That even applies to most "Vintage" mics as well. Only certain collector or classic mics hold their value or appreciate in any meaningful way. You also have to factor in inflation. A mic that cost $500 in 1965 may still be bought for $500 in 2004, but it hasn't retained 100% of it's value.

 

[DJL]

The B5 has a 6 micron diaphragm; the C4 has a 3 micron diaphragm.

Harvey, how did you check/test the Behringer B5 and Studio Projects C4 to know for a fact that the B5 has a 6 micron diaphragm and the C4 has a 3 micron diaphragm? How does someone do something like that... what equipment is required and etc? Thanks

 

[DJL]

Originally posted by alanhyatt
To the group:

I make no bones about posting a reply to the thread that was on Studio Forums, but I sure the hell did not take it down.... Ask them to put it back up.

The thread was about Dot and DJL, but I don't remember what it was named. Everyone on Studio Forums was ripping DJL a new asshole(what else is new), calling him this name and that name because of some thing DJL and Dot got into on HR or some other forum over the C4's and B5's. So I posted a reply there and said that I agree with them! So what! It was all out in the open...

The problem is, the entire thread is no longer there. Someone at Studio Forums took it down...NOT ME...There are only two people there who have the power to pull that down. I can't pull an entire thread there, and I did not pull my reply.

So if you all want to know what was on that thread so badly, you will have to get in touch with Steve Langer and Dan Richards at Studio Forums, as they are the only ones who could remove the thread...

The problem is, you all let DJL pull the wool over your eyes.

To DJL:

It is exactly this that pisses me off about you. You get some information from out of the blue, then when you can't find the facts, you accuse me of taking some thread down without researching any of the facts. Just like you make so many bullshit claims here on HR without checking the facts. Your like a fucking bad meal DJL that continues to come back up 24 hours a day! The problem is, we have to keep tasting you...

So if you want to know what is on that thread, then call them up DJL... just get the hell off my back on this one already. I am happy to call you whatever names you would like me to call you to your face. I don't hide behind any thread. In fact, if you give me your address, I will be happy to come up to N. Cal, and tell it to your face directly so you can see me look you in the eye when I do. Just back off for a fucking change! We all know what your opinions are of me, and what your agenda is on my products. Put a sock in it already.

I've gotten PM's and emails from people telling me they thought your were an asshole and other twisted names... but I didn't called you bad names in the PM's or emails... I didn't even agree with them... The point here is not if the C4 and B5 are incidental or not.... the point is that the B5 has features like the C4... you know the pad and rolloff switches, interchangeable capsules, hell both the B5 and C4 are even made by 797 Audio in China and etc... and the Behringer B5 may be a good choice for some who want a mic with features like the C4 but can't afford a C4. In my opinion, as I stated to you before... I'd buy good name brand mic that will last a life time and hold their value... but, that's just my opinion. If you can be civil... I've got some really good questions for you if you think you can handle it?

PS... one other thing, are you threatening me?

Where did you go Alan?

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Harvey, how did you check/test the Behringer B5 and Studio Projects C4 to know for a fact that the B5 has a 6 micron diaphragm and the C4 has a 3 micron diaphragm? How does someone do something like that... what equipment is required and etc? Thanks

I believe that those specs were obtained from both companies literature, and I have no reason to believe they're wrong or misleading.

If you really want to verify it for yourself, any good precision micrometer should do the job. For reference, the average human hair is about 12 microns thick, and a standard sheet of bond paper is about 22 microns thick.

So the B5 diaphragm is a little over 1/3 the thickness of a piece of paper and 1/2 the thickness of a human hair, while the C3 is a little under 1/7 the thickness of a piece of paper and 1/4 the thickness of a human hair.

The thickness refers to the thickness of the Mylar material used; the gold sputtering is actually onlya few Angstroms thick, and contributes very little to the overall thickness measurement.