Studio Projects C4

Well I don't read minds. :D

Didn't mean to imply that I do. Sorry if that's what you got out of my reply. I just wanted to state what I understood his point to be.

I felt like you were comparing apples to oranges. Like he said, If i have to throw away my B1 in three years, it will have served it's purpose and I won't sweat it it a bit. If My KSM32 isn't still working in three years, I'll be bummed.

I know, the KSM32 isn't an expensive mic either by most folks standards, but it's waaaay more expensive than a B1.

Blessings, Terry

Oh, and as far as the Camel analogy goes, I think he was make a statement about different people's tastes. Not being a mindreader, I could be wrong about that too.

Blessings
 
alanhyatt said:
Harvey Gerst speaks from “his” experiences, and those opinions may not be right for others either. Product knowledge is a good thing, as is experience, but not everyone hears the same.

Point is…Harvey smokes Camels, so is Camels the best or only cigarette on the market for the money? I don’t know what he smoke’s, I am just making a statement! You don’t smoke them because he does…you smoke them because you like them. I hate smoking, so I don’t smoke! So now what?

Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
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For the record, I've never smoked Camels. I originally smoked Kents, then Kent 100's, then their Ultra Ligh 100's. Kent's prices skyrocketed, so now I smoke Sport Ultra Light 100's - about the cheapest Ultra Lights I've been able to find in North Texas.

As to the other point, experience CAN help if you have a broad base of experience. For example, people starting out in audio frequently mistake the harsh treble of a C1000 as being "more detailed". If all they've ever owned is a couple of low priced dynamics, it's easy to see why the mic "appears" to have "more detail" by comparison. As their experience and knowledge base increases (by exposure to better mics), they come to hear the mic for what it really is, harsh.

I've never claimed (and I know you haven't either) that a Studio Project mic is identical to a Neumann U87. But will an SP mic sometimes work better (for a given task) than a U87? I think we can both agree that, for a given situation, an SP mic might be a better choice than an 87.

But making an informed decision on when to use each is usually a matter of experience, if both mics are available.

That kind of knowledge is what experience gets you, and yes, while I hear differently than other people, I can still make a partial attempt at helping people by advising what might or might not work in a given situation, based on years of experience with a wide assortment of mics and recording situations.

Just another way of looking at the situation.
 
DJL,

You take things too personal, that is one of your problems, and yes, your mics will lose money! Twenty years from now, see what you get! Obviously, you think different, but you will have your answer in 20 years. Just remember you can't compare inflationary prices based on the dollar today, 20 years ago, or 20 years from now. I used to buy 101 octane gas for 21 cents! Used is used, and with all due respect, the mics you have are not collector mics.

If you don't think the V67 is not a dark mic, then that explains to me a good deal about your ears and why we disagree about things. You don't need to read into my Harvey statement other than to make a point. It is not directed at you.

If this escaluates into a war, I'm gone. Keep it civil, and I might hang around.
 
alanhyatt said:
DJL,

You take things too personal, that is one of your problems, and yes, your mics will lose money! Twenty years from now, see what you get! Obviously, you think different, but you will have your answer in 20 years. Just remember you can't compare inflationary prices based on the dollar today, 20 years ago, or 20 years from now. I used to buy 101 octane gas for 21 cents! Used is used, and with all due respect, the mics you have are not collector mics.

If you don't think the V67 is not a dark mic, then that explains to me a good deal about your ears and why we disagree about things. You don't need to read into my Harvey statement other than to make a point. It is not directed at you.

If this escaluates into a war, I'm gone. Keep it civil, and I might hang around.
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Alan, your miss reading me.... I'm not taking anything personal, and that's one of your problems in assuming such and I see no reason why not to keep it civil. Let's use three LDC budget mics that many people on this bbs own... the Oktava MC-319, Marshall MXLV67G, and Studio Projects C1. With these three mics in mind, like you, I wouldn't call the Marshall MXLV67G a dark mic... instead, I'd call the Oktava MC-319 dark, and the Studio Projects C1 bright. Anyways, you already answered my question and for that I thank you. Thanks Alan. :)

PS... You don't need to read into my Harvey statement other than to make a point. It is not directed at you. Yeah, I know... I don't see why you had to drag Harvey into this thread like that... but oh well, whatever floats your boat. Thanks again. :)
 
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Thanks, Alan, for giving us a bit of a heads up on the market pricing of your mics. I sure wish other manufacturers would be as open.

Fab
 
Re: Why only kid... Remember when Radio Shack sold Crown PZM’s?

DJL said:
Then again the Behringer B5 and Studio Projects C4 may be more alike than we know...
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You know . . . there's also a lot of similarity between a guy's ass and a girl's ass. And even a horse's ass. Just different proportions, ya know?
 
Nobody is immune to declining value, including the high end guys. My studio friend has a pair of Neumann TLM-103 that he purchased before the big price drop, now he is landlocked into a set of mics that can be purchased new for half what he paid. The good news is, they sound great and he will be using them a long time.

I can see the logic of lowering the C4 pricing for perceived competitiveness with the Rode NT5.

I shopped both carefully, but the value of the C4 became very clear with the extra capsules, more robust flight case, and shockmounts. Spec-wise, both are virtually identical except in frequency response. The possibility of a hypercardioid capsule set increases the real value even more. I hope these will be made available to those of us who own older C4 sets.

I can also see the price increase for the B series, especially the B1. IMO it is under priced for what it does.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
I can still make a partial attempt at helping people by advising what might or might not work in a given situation, based on years of experience with a wide assortment of mics and recording situations.

Just another way of looking at the situation.
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This is the key phrase..."might or might not" work. There are no guarantees that any suggestion from anyone of us will work. Leading someone to a purchase based on our experiences could very well not be what a specific buyer expected. Too many variables.

I am glad however that you are smoking light brands, but you would be better of quitting. Based on my experience, the best butt for you is none!

regards,

Alan
 
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhhhhh k…. So I guess no one knows of a good place to get some Studio Project mics. Thanks.
 
Fret,

To avoid any risk of this thread degenerating I suggest you email Alan/PMI and re-ask the question.

From what Alan said, if you have patience, you will be able to purchase these mics cheaper in a few weeks time.

:cool:
 
Re: Why only kid... Remember when Radio Shack sold Crown PZM’s?

DJL said:
...Too bad 797 Audio in China doesn’t get their act together and dump the middleman and sell their mics direct under their own name... that way they might even make better mics because they couldn’t hide QC issues behind SE, SP, Behringer, and etc.
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So, who would distribute them? 797? You know, that takes money too, and maybe, just maybe, it's cheaper to distribute through companies like PMI and Behringer. ;)

Who would design them? Sure, 797 could put out cookie-cutter mics like other companies have, but the market seems to be shifting to better things nowadays. Everyone's tweaking their own design now, pushing the envelope by increasing capsule voltage, using higher quality components, and custom tailoring the sound of each mic, kind of like Studio Projects has been doing from the start. Remember, the C series was designed and tailor-tuned by SP. They are not cookie cutter mics.

Companies like 797 do what they do best and hire others to do what the other can do better. In this case, design (or steal a design :p ) and sell mics.
 
Well Jesus, Mary, Joseph, and Herne! Somebody has to say it. Both Alan and DJL are *trying*, really *trying*, to do the right thing and engage in civil correspondence! Well Hoo Rah for the both of you. My advice- it's like tarantulas. It takes time to become comfortable with them walking on you. Best to take it in small doses.-Richie
 
Re: Re: Why only kid... Remember when Radio Shack sold Crown PZM’s?

chessrock said:
You know . . . there's also a lot of similarity between a guy's ass and a girl's ass. And even a horse's ass. Just different proportions, ya know?
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Humm, sometimes I don't know about you chressrock , sometimes you can be one sick puppy.

Fret, the URL for "Full Compass" that Tubedude was talking about is http://www.fullcompass.com

Flatpicker, maybe you should start another thread about that... it might be fun.

And thanks Richard Monroe. :)
 
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Re: Re: Re: Why only kid... Remember when Radio Shack sold Crown PZM’s?

DJL said:
Humm, sometimes I don't know about you chressrock , sometimes you can be one sick puppy.
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You know, DJL, coming from you, . . . that's actually quite a compliment.

:D
 
I don't know what you guys are talking about re losing money. If you're going to buy a mic today, you will make comparisons as to price, sound and your personal needs, and then you go and buy what's best for you. The mic you buy is your value, not what it would be worth to someone else at some later point. If you buy a C4 today it will still be the same mic after the price drops.

Allan was nice enough to announce a price reduction in advance. He's done the same with the VTB-1. That's a rare thing, because it will cut into his sales right now. Most manufacturers let you buy their stuff at the higher price while they already made arrangements to drop the price a few weeks later. Look at Apple/Emagic. Space Designer, introduced just a few months ago is now included (with a lot of other plugins) with Locic 6pro. The upgrade price for the whole package is lower than what Space Designer cost. Just a random example.

Apart from that: you'll never know what your gear will we worth 10 or 20 years from now. You might drop your mic and it's not worth a nickel anymore. Or a new technology may come and make older products obsolete. 20 years from now it's not unlikely that digital microphones (such as the Neumann Solution D) will be the standard, thus making today's preamp and microphone technology obsolete, except maybe for very high class vintage stuff.

Guys, don't worry about the future, what matters is the present situation. If you wanna get your money's worth, just *use* the stuff you have. Just my 2 euro cents (currently about 2.5 cents USD ;) )
 
Ok first, I didn't ask Alan a question... I made a statement.... and if we strip everything away from Alan's reply to my comment except what relates to my comment, what we have left is "As for the C4, well the C4's reduction is a need to be priced more in line with the RODE NT5 in my opinion. At this price, Studio Projects can show a better value for the money, and I think we will do that at $XXX.XX, but necessarily at $XXX.XX." which mean's (like I said) the C4 won't/can't hold it's value... and the way things are going I won't be surprised when the price drops again someday to compete with the Behringer B5 and etc. This is one of the problems I see with the market being flooded with cheap budget mics. This is one of the reasons why it's better to buy top name brand mics, they'll last you a life time and hold their value better. Anyway, I don't want to see this thread turn into a SP spam thread anymore than it already is and I couldn't care less about what the hell Harvey smokes, so with that I'll say thanks again Alan and move on. Thank goodness it's Friday. :)

EDIT: I added the bold lettering.
 
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alanhyatt said:
This is the key phrase..."might or might not" work. There are no guarantees that any suggestion from anyone of us will work. Leading someone to a purchase based on our experiences could very well not be what a specific buyer expected. Too many variables.

I couldn't agree more, and I've always tried to say that whenever anyone asks me for a mic recommendation. I pushed the Behringer ECM omnis a lot here, but only because too few people even consider omni pattern mics for home studios and the Behringers at least provide a very low cost entry point into that class of microphones. I am so pleased to see that your C4's come with an omni pattern capsule.

I am glad however that you are smoking light brands, but you would be better of quitting. Based on my experience, the best butt for you is none!

regards,

Alan
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Possibly, but all my non-smoking friends from high school are dead, and I'm still here. At 67, I think stress and major lifestyle changes are more risky, so I'll probably taper off of the unhealthy stuff I do, rather than just give things up cold turkey.
 
I got my C4's at http://soundpure.com/ for $350. This included tax and shipping. Great deal in my opinion. As for everyone arguing about microphone value, it really isn't relevant. Like a previous poster said, you will more than likely drop and break your mics before they become collector items. As long the mics sound good to you, and they were inside your budget, nothing else matters. Enjoy!
 
Wow! you guys should take a look at these mics. great for just about every thing. plus it comes with shock mounts, omni caps, cardiod caps, 10dB filter switch, bass rolloff, and they are a matched pair. Oh, also comes with windscreens and an aluminum case. You cant go wrong with a $319 price tag.
 
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