Studio Projects C4- 1st night in use... Grade B+

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tubedude

tubedude

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The only reason I'm not grading them an A is because I cant be sure THAT quickly. 1st time in session with them on overheads, and they are really really good in that position. At least they seemed to be. I dont like to base opinions on one use when things are always subjective, but I have a feeling these mics are real winners. Very detailed compared to the MXL 603's and even the AKG c451 at twice the price seems to be losing the show here.
Highly suggest you demo some and see for yourself. The price just dropped significantly too.
Several times I heard the over head snare by itself on playback on headphones and thought that someone was actually in the room hitting a snare. Very realistic. Digging it.
Didnt use the omni caps yet, may never get around to it, ever.
More to come.
 
Cool. Good news for me then :D What OH positioning did you use, and any other mics? Ta
 
The ole loop a string between the kick and snare trick (otherwise known as the two stick method) was it...
the ususal suspects everywhere else... MD441 on snare, e602 on kick, MD421 on a tom, e609 on a tom, MD504 on a Tom (someone likes sennheisers huh?) and U195 on room but didnt get to use it in the end.
The overs sound great. I need more good preamps. And compressors.
 
I agree. The C-4's are Studio Projects best bang for buck entry, and no small diaphragms in their price range come close. I would continue to recomment Rode NT5 to the Europeans and Australians, where their price point makes them attractive, and MXL 603s to those who are on a tight budget. I'd love to get a good review on the new AKG cheapie (?C430).-Richie
 
tubedude said:
The only reason I'm not grading them an A is because I cant be sure THAT quickly.
Amen... IMO, it takes many sessions before one should write a review... unless it just flatout sucks.

For example... I haven't used the Behringer B5 enough yet to post a review.

The Behringer B5 is Studio Projects C4's competitor... but the Behringer B5 cost much less than the Studio Projects C4.
 
Re: Re: Studio Projects C4- 1st night in use... Grade B+

DJL said:
Amen... IMO, it takes many sessions before one should write a review... unless it just flatout sucks.

For example... I haven't used the Behringer B5 enough yet to post a review.

The Behringer B5 is Studio Projects C4's competitor... but the Behringer B5 cost much less than the Studio Projects C4.

Just because the Behri's LOOK like the C4 does NOT make them a competitor to the C4. Different price points, and, as Richie said above you, completely different quality.

Would you say than an MXL 2001 is a competitor to a Neumann U87 because of their external appearance? Probably not...but neither one of those are a Studio Projects mic, so you wouldn't be able to bash Studio Projects by making that comparison.

Why the fascination with the B5? You've stated on multiple occasions (when asked about your 180 degree turn on Studio Projects products-the ones that you used to avidly support...) that your taste in microphones has changed, and you've moved beyond the cheap Chinese condensers...suddenly, you're using a B5? Hmmmmmmm........
 
Re: Re: Re: Studio Projects C4- 1st night in use... Grade B+

H2oskiphil said:
Just because the Behri's LOOK like the C4 does NOT make them a competitor to the C4. Different price points, and, as Richie said above you, completely different quality.
Well as many people all ready know... both the Behringer B5 and Studio Projects C4 are made by 797 Audio in China and both are SDC mics, and both have the roll-off/pad switch and interchangeable capsules and etc... so the Behringer B5 is Studio Projects C4 competitor... but the Behringer B5 cost much less than the Studio Projects C4.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Studio Projects C4- 1st night in use... Grade B+

DJL said:
Well as many people all ready know... both the Behringer B5 and Studio Projects C4 are made by 797 Audio in China and both are SDC mics, and both have the roll-off/pad switch and interchangeable capsules and etc... so the Behringer B5 is Studio Projects C4 competitor... but the Behringer B5 cost much less than the Studio Projects C4.

Are a Chevrolet Cavalier Z24 and a Chevrolet Corvette competitors?

Both are made by Chevrolet, both have an engine, transmission, and 4 tires, both are marketed as sports cars....

But one is priced at $15K, and one at $75K.

By your logic, they're competitors.
 
No... but the Behringer B5 is Studio Projects C4 competitor and both Behringer and Studio Projects are playing by the same rules of under cutting there competitors prices.

Added: And comparing Chevrolet with 797 Audio is like trying to compare apples with oranges... lol.
 
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Actually, H20, to be fair, I didn't suggest a difference in quality between the B-5 and the C-4, because I have no direct experience with B-5, so I cannot verify that. Although design differences between the 2 mics have been alleged, I do not have access to an independant review of the 2 mics. Yes, I know DJL's agenda is transparent. I do think it is true that Behringer and Studio Projects are in competitiion, and the 2 mics clearly are shooting at similar market niches. I can say that I have direct experience with both Studio Projects and Behringer customer service, and if the 2 mics *were* identical (which I doubt), I would still buy the SP mics., because dealing with Behringer and their dealer network is a bigger headache than I need.
What I said was- 1. The C-4's are the best mics of their type anywhere near their price point. 2. The MXL 603s are very good mics that are well worth their price. 3. In many foreign countries, differences in price due to import tariffs make Rode NT5 a good alternative. 4. The new AKG entry into the budget SD market is interesting, but the jury hasn't even heard the evidence. I said *nothing* re: Behringer B-5. Now I will.
Very few people , including myself, know very much about the Behringer B-5 except- 1. They are made by 797 audio in China, which does manufacture Studio Projects mics. 2. They *look* identical to the C-4, and have identical features externally. 3. They are dirt cheap, undercutting the price of *everybody* (not just SP) for a matched set of SD mics with dual capsules. 4. Brent Casey, who is primarily responsible for the design of the C-4, states that the diaphragm of the B-5 is several microns thicker than the C-4, and suggests that there are differences in the transformer body components as well, but admits he has not evaluated the mic directly. 5. Harvey Gerst supports the statement regarding differences in diaphragm thickness, based on manufacturers abstracts seen at NAMM. No documentation has been produced to support this, probably largely due to DJL's persistent insinuation that Harvey would make fraudulent statements to support the business efforts of his friend, Alan Hyatt, CEO of PMI Audio, parent company of Studio Projects. Such insinuations are infantile and preposterous. 6. Alan Hyatt has said he's pissed off at 797 audio for doing this, but probably does not have legal recourse (Duh!).
It is my opinion that vague insinuation based on a transparent agenda will not help to clarify this issue. The only thing that will is a technical evaluation of the C-4 and B-5 mics, not only in terms of internal construction and design, but also in terms of performance in controlled A-B tests. Furthermore, even that will not clarify whatever differences may exist in build consistency, quality control, and customer service. If Behringer holds true to form, they will produce a product where half of them are almost as good as the item they have made an obvious copy of. The other half will suck, or be outright defective, and customer service will involve bending over and grabbing your ankles.-Richie
 
Richie-

Wasn't trying to drag you into this, just referencing your comment about the C4 being one of the best mics at that price point.

The Behris are at a different price point.

My opinion is that they're not really competitors-the B5 and the 603 might be, though....
 
H2oskiphil said:
My opinion is that they're not really competitors-the B5 and the 603 might be, though....
Why H2oskiphil?

Tubedude, this not the direction I wanted your thread to go... and believe it or not, I'm looking forward to reading your full review after you've had a chance to run the C4's through all the ropes.
 
Why H2oskiphil?

Closer price points...both street out at about $89/ea, although the B5 does come with the extra capsule.

The C4's run about $160/ea-almost twice the price of the B5.

That's been my point all along.
 
H2oskiphil said:
Closer price points...both street out at about $89/ea, although the B5 does come with the extra capsule.

The C4's run about $160/ea-almost twice the price of the B5.

That's been my point all along.
Humm, well that explains it... your only looking at the price and nothing more. Thanks for explaining your point. :)
 
your only looking at the price and nothing more.

How else would you define competing products? What criteria are you using to designate the C4 and the B5 as competing products, other than the fact that they're both made by 797 Audio? If you're not going to use price to define a market segment, then what CAN you use?

Are the B5 and your Earthworks SDC's competing products?

And you never did answer the question of how a B5 managed to sneak into your "I've gotten too good for cheap Chinese microphones" locker.....
 
H2oskiphil said:
How else would you define competing products?
I already point that out to you in my above post... and if you re-read Richard Monroe's last post in this thread and the read the link/thread that Han posted you would have your answer.
 
H2oskiphil said:
And you never did answer the question of how a B5 managed to sneak into your "I've gotten too good for cheap Chinese microphones" locker.....

Let's go DJ...:rolleyes:
 
You guys have anything better to do? heh...

It'll be awhile, as right now I probably wont use them again until next sunday for a one song project someone is bringing in, and then derby weekend after that I took off to enjoy the local Mardi Gras, but the weekend after I have a nice solid 11 song project going friday through sunday, so thats when I'll get my better idea of the C4's. Probably use them on acoustic guitar and other stuff on that session too, might even try them in weird places like dirty cabs.

The drummer came over today and said that after going to 3 different local studios, the drums that I got for him in a large beroom in my house were the best his have ever sounded.
Take that to the bank beeotch. Pay me.

:)
 
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