Sooooooo tired of fake drum threads.

Greg_L said:
I do know it takes for-fucking-ever to make a legit drum track out of programmed samples and shit. I know it does, and I certainly don't blame anyone for avoiding it if they don't understand what they're doing anyway. But I've also seen and heard first-hand people really sit down and take the time to understand drums, drumming, and get it right, and their efforts have paid huge dividends.
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Not quite forever....but it does take some time and work. :D

Back in the early MIDI/drum sample days...oh my god...it was absolute torture. The apps were crude, the samples sucked..and even after spending a lot of time and effort, it still sounded like Tonka Toy Drums.

The tools today absolutely kick ass, but it still takes some time and effort.
Sure, you can assemble a basic drum track in like 10 minutes if you just use some canned grooves and link them up...which is what I think a lot of guys do, and while that may sound better than the Tonka Toy Drums... it will still not be very believable as a drum track. Unfortunately too many people settle on that and move on.

When you start to consider the drum track in terms of arrangement...like what the drums will play during the intro, the first verse, the second verse, the chorus, the lead break, the bridge, then coming back to another verse or two, and another chorus, and then the outro and finish...then you realize it's going to take some time to consider all that and sequence all that...not to mention that you also want to make the grooves with feel and nuance for them to be completely believable.

Mmmm...yeah, there's some work involved. :)
If you keep at it though, it gets easier as you learn what to listen and look for, and each new drum track will be that much better.
 
miroslav said:
Not quite forever....but it does take some time and work. :D

Back in the early MIDI/drum sample days...oh my god...it was absolute torture. The apps were crude, the samples sucked..and even after spending a lot of time and effort, it still sounded like Tonka Toy Drums.

The tools today absolutely kick ass, but it still takes some time and effort.
Sure, you can assemble a basic drum track in like 10 minutes if you just use some canned grooves and link them up...which is what I think a lot of guys do, and while that may sound better than the Tonka Toy Drums... it will still not be very believable as a drum track. Unfortunately too many people settle on that and move on.

When you start to consider the drum track in terms of arrangement...like what the drums will play during the intro, the first verse, the second verse, the chorus, the lead break, the bridge, then coming back to another verse or two, and another chorus, ans then the outro and finish...then you realize it's going to take some time to consider all that and sequence all that...not to mention that you also want to make the grooves with feel and nuance for them to be completely believable.

Mmmm...yeah, there some work involved. :)
If you keep at it though, it gets easier as you learn what to listen and look for, and each new drum track will be that much better.
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I started programming on an Alesis HR16. I've not found anything that I liked programming more!
I've looked for a pc version of the same interface, but never have been able to find one.
 
beezelbubba said:
I started programming on an Alesis HR16. I've not found anything that I liked programming more!
I've looked for a pc version of the same interface, but never have been able to find one.
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Same here, lol. I still have that drum machine on top of my wardrobe.
 
beezelbubba said:
I started programming on an Alesis HR16. I've not found anything that I liked programming more!
I've looked for a pc version of the same interface, but never have been able to find one.
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I started on an Alesis SR-16. I used to use it for demos, then bring those to the band...who would promptly ruin the song. Lol. I guess it's part of the reason I'm skeptical that using real musicians is always best. Maybe if they are the rare, unicorn musicians [with taste who know what they're doing] or established pros, but the local guy you can find in a small town just is usually not very good and will more than likely ruin your song.

I'm not sure about the HR-16, but I actually liked the sounds of the SR-16. I thought the hip hop sounds were really good. There was a kick (I think it was called wood kick) and snare that were pretty nice for rock, too.
 
beezelbubba said:
I started programming on an Alesis HR16. I've not found anything that I liked programming more!
I've looked for a pc version of the same interface, but never have been able to find one.
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I started on a HR 16, programing it through a keyboard.

The SR 16, is that a relevant, still good machine?

I got one stashed away that hasn't been used in a long long time. (lost power supply)

I seem to remember it having decent sounds, well at least highly superior to the earlier HR model
 
RFR said:
The SR 16, is that a relevant, still good machine?
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I liked it a lot and still respect that machine, but I sold mine a few years ago. It is a pain to use compared to modern programming.

If you're going after a 90s flavor rap/hip hop, definitely. But they overall they obviously don't sound as good as the modern PC alternatives. For rock, it's iffy...I'd say for rock maybe indie/folk type stuff because the sounds have "character". So it depends what you're doing. A song like Beercan by Beck comes to mind for that SR-16 sound (Though I have no idea if he used one on that).
 
Yeah, thanks.
I gotta get a power supply. It uses an ac one.

I used it for the purpose of writing the basic parts. It actually helped for drummers NOT fucking up the drums.

It closed the door to "artistic interpretation"

Made it easy. Here's what i want, except good.
:D

I was fortunate to have some good drummers at my diposal.
 
RFR said:
I started on a HR 16, programing it through a keyboard.

The SR 16, is that a relevant, still good machine?

I got one stashed away that hasn't been used in a long long time. (lost power supply)

I seem to remember it having decent sounds, well at least highly superior to the earlier HR model
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I never used the SR. It looked different to me, in terms of data input, so I just kept using the HR. I used the HR from '89 to about 2004, when I began using software. I love the flexibility of being able to use any sample I like, but I loved the step sequencer in the HR.It took me years to get comfortable with the piano roll, grid interface...um...thingie! :D
 
So it looks like even my thread complaining about threads about samples and programmed drums has turned into a thread about samples and programmed drum tracks. WOW. The irony of it all. :rolleyes:
 
I started back in the late 80's as a teenager in my bedroom with a Casio keyboard for a drum machine. It could do a couple of fills and an intro and ending. It sucked massively. But I loved it. I must have wrote 100 songs on that damn thing. I moved on in the 90's to better drum machines. Boss, Alesis, I even had one of those Yamaha drum machines with the pads so I could make my own little fills. Although not being a drummer hindered that dream a little more than I would have liked. But I got pretty good at programming my drums. Me and my songwriting partner wrote a lot of songs on those things. Being that we live in a town with less than 4,000 people a real drummer was kinda hard to find.

But we did find a couple in the late 90's. And like a couple other people have noted on this thread, they promptly ruined a few songs. LOL. One of them developed a meth habit and we couldn't ever do ballads with him behind the kit. Oh and there was the night he sold his kit and showed up an hour before we were supposed to play a house party, with a set of bongos. Cause he was high and thought he could play the whole set on some bongos instead of his drum kit. The other one quit showing up because he didn't like recording. It started with showing up late and just evolved into him leaving his drums at my house for 9 months. Just because he didn't like recording. Well that and his psycho girlfriend didn't like him being in a band.

Then in the early 2000's I put away my 4-track cassette based system and bought a computer. I used my trusted drum machines for a little while after that. Then I heard about EzDrummer. I never looked back. I now have it and Superior Drummer, Addictive Drums, and several others. They always show up for sessions completely sober and ready to go. They show up on time, and they don't have psycho girlfriends. They don't sell their kits an hour before a show and they don't get up and start doing karate kata's because their high and it seemed like a good idea. Yeah that happened. Our meth head drummer was a big karate nut, and he would get up from his kit during a string change and start his kata workouts. It would take us an hour to get back to playing.

My point is that for some of us working with a real drummer is a hassle. For some of us working with a real drummer is not an option. I don't have the space for recording a real drum kit. It's not gonna happen. I have a wife and a life outside of my music making ventures. My rooms for recording are never gonna be good rooms for drums. Ever. Under any circumstances. And my neighbors would kill me if I tried. Especially since I mostly work late at night.

I do however now have a wicked electronic kit that triggers all my sample libraries. I can play a little more now than I could then but, not much. I bought the kit and have used it when I am working for other people and they have a drummer. The samples are of better drums than I could ever afford. Recorded in better rooms with better mics then I'll ever have. They sound a million times better than my old drum machines. And in all the years I've been handing out demo tapes and recording music, I can tell you this much. Nobody cares.

That's right I said it. Nobody cares. The people who are listening to your music don't really care. Only other musicians care. The audience couldn't care less. I doubt anybody's audience (other than Rush) is made up of only musicians. I know mine ain't. I've got about 50 people on a mailing list that I send music to every few months and not one of them give a damn if I use samples. The only thing anybody has ever said to me is, that the drums sure do sound better than what you used to do. And that was my mom who said that.
 
Not to worry. It will probably go full circle.
Like analog vs digital threads. They've got legs.
 
Resurrect said:
Yeah, the ironic reality of it all. ;)
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It's only ironic if you let it feel that way. ;)

RFR said:
Not to worry. It will probably go full circle.
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It's gone full circle twice for me.
When I started recording, I used a drummer and a drum kit...even played drums on a few songs myself.
Then the first wave of MIDI and sampling came around, and I messed with that for a couple of years.
Decided to go back to a full kit in my studio, and that's been great, and I still use that...but now I'm also back with MIDI and drum samples, though this time around, they can sound great if you know what you are doing and you do some work.

At this point...I embrace both, just like analog and digital. :)
 
I have a vermona drm mkIII and an elektron machinedrum...nothing fake about them, I too embrace analogue and digital :)
 
I too embrace analogue and digital equally. But I also like rock and happen to play real instruments.

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deadtolove said:
The only thing anybody has ever said to me is, that the drums sure do sound better than what you used to do. And that was my mom who said that.
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You have to understand the uncomfortable position you put your mom in when you send her your links.
 
fat_fleet said:
I too embrace analogue and digital equally. But I also like rock and happen to play real instruments.

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You have to understand the uncomfortable position you put your mom in when you send her your links.
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True that. I don't even bother to show my mom my music anymore. She hates rock with a passion.
 
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