Sonar 5 is here!

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wfaraoni said:
Im still an Owner of Sonar 3 Producer...
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MP3 converters take about 3 minutes to set up for free with Sonar - what's the big deal? By NOT licensing MP3 encoder technology, the price point of the product stays down.

ALL MAJOR CONSUMER SOFTWARE COMPANIES OPERATE ON A 12 MONTH LIFECYCLE. SO HAS CAKEWALK FOR AT LEAST THE PAST FIVE YEARS!!

$179 is chump change for an application that is at the heart of my daily recording operations.

A 2 and a half year free upgrade window is entirely laughable and would jeopardise their cashflow to such a point that they would be filing for bankruptcy after twelve months. A lifetime license is equally ludicrous. The G.A.A.P. method of accountancy requires revenue to be deferred over time if you are taking money to provide a feature or some deliverable in the future. By offering a lifetime license at price "X", Cakewalk would only see only X divided by the average lifespan of a license per year. That is a recipe for bankruptcy.

This isn't shareware or some fly-by-night internet developer... It is a $USD100,000,000 annual business for crying out loud - show me one software vendor with comparable revenue that offers two and a half year amnesty periods or lifetime licenses in any industry.

Look at the price point of Cakewalk products compared to the competitors - there ain't that many points of margin left to play with - they are DIRT cheap already for what they do. It is a business, not a charity...

I think the demos included in v4 would have provided real value to you... And the updated workflow improvements....and the MPEX time and pitch-scaling....and the POW-R dithering...and the clip automation tools....

But I guess that wasn't worth $179 either?

I'll just get out of everyone's way now and let you all continue to look the gift horse in the mouth.

:) Q.
 
prestomation said:
Wasn't it yesterday? :confused: :confused: :confused:
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No - it was TWELVE MONTHS AGO JUST LIKE THE LAST UPGRADE CYCLE!

Cheapskates! Go and buy something cheaper! Looked at prices of Pro-Tools rigs lately?

:D Q.
 
wfaraoni said:
l
First Off, I want the MP3 encoder included in the program. Im not going to pay you for something I can get free. Its just a hassle to have to go outside the program to do my conversions.
Bill
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The days of free convertors may be numbered.

I used dBpoweramp for a long time until I had to rebuild my machine. I reran their installer and was informd that there is no longer a free version of the mp3 encoder due to some legal bullshit. I had the month free trial then ended up buying the thing.
 
Hmmm..

One feature that I could really use was the convolution verb, as I use Impulse responses alot, I use SIR which is freeware and really pulls teeth on the cpu, actually I can rarely use it in sonar, so I have to bounce the tracks that i want to put convolution reverb on and do it outside of sonar and then import the tracks back in..

Ideally I wanted to have my verbs on a send in sonar, but SIR is to heavy, I'm thinking that if the new convolution in sonar 5 is working out great, i'm probably going to upgrade, but I think i'll be waiting for the reviews before throwing in another pile of $$$ for the upgrade.
 
Qwerty:

Be careful, you'll be accused of siding with Cakewalk no matter what they do. :)

I'm with ya on the MP3 thing, and for that matter, a good bit of your post.
 
What's so unreasonable?

I will be paying the money and getting Sonar 5.

Everyone is frustrated if software doesn't work properly. Consider how people feel about Microsoft! However, I feel that Sonar is actually pretty stable. I remember using Pro Tools Free on a Win 98 machine--it crashed every 30 minutes!

Cakewalk is a relatively small company in a fiercely competitive market. They suffer heavily from piracy, as do all software developers. They have to compete with other excellent software packages, such as Cubase SX, Logic, Digital Performer, and now Pro Tools M-Powered, plus all the others like, Tracktion, etc. Frequent upgrades are the norm to stay abreast of the competition in terms of features and included plug-ins and instruments.

I think their prices are in line with the others, often cheaper. Would you prefer to buy your Steinberg software and then have to shell out extra for the dongle? I understand it is now sold separately.

There was an interesting editorial in Sound on Sound recently on the issue of paying for software updates. All in all, I agree with the reviewer--the prices are not unreasonable, given the size of the market, the development costs, and how powerful these programs really are.

Fifteen years ago my dad payed over $400 to buy me a Fostex four track recorder. We've come a long way since then.
 
The comparison to hardware is a valid one.

If you bought a piece of hardware, and the following year a newer, better model is released, what's your options? Most people would probably just keep using what they have. They don't necessarily feel compelled to rush out and buy the newer version. If they do, they normally sell their current model (at $.50 on the dollar) and pay full retail for the new one. No upgrade policy.

So take jamie's Fostex (please :) ). He paid $400.00 new. A year later Fostex releases a new model. Jamie sells his current one for $200.00, and buys the new one for $500.00. Net cost to upgrade, $300.00.

From that viewpoint, the ability to upgrade Sonar for $179 or $229 don't look that bad. And you always have the choice NOT to upgrade.

I didn't upgrade to 4.X, and surprisingly I am still able to record, mix and discuss Sonar with you bozo's.

However, the one point that does need to be made is that the version you own should work (whichever version it is). As stated, I don't own ver 4, so I don't know what the particular problem is, but Cakewalk has an obligation to make it work or upgrade you to 5.0 for free (IMHO).
 
Qwerty said:
ALL MAJOR CONSUMER SOFTWARE COMPANIES OPERATE ON A 12 MONTH LIFECYCLE. SO HAS CAKEWALK FOR AT LEAST THE PAST FIVE YEARS!!
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There's no point in screaming. :P

And which major consumer software companies release a new major version every year? I'd just like to know. :)
 
Any consumer title in the secure content management market -- antivirus -- for one... EA <insert sport here> 200"x" also comes to mind...

SORRY FOR SHOUTING!

:D Q.
 
moskus said:
There's no point in screaming. :P

And which major consumer software companies release a new major version every year? I'd just like to know. :)
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Autodesk (AutoCAD, Inventor, 3D Studio MAX), Dassault Systems (SolidWorks), Microsoft, Quicken, McAfee, Norton...
 
moskus said:
And which major consumer software companies release a new major version every year? I'd just like to know. :)
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Close to a year cycle: Adobe, Macromedia (now Adobe). I say "close" because it can go over slightly from major version to version.
 
Qwerty said:
MP3 converters take about 3 minutes to set up for free with Sonar - what's the big deal? By NOT licensing MP3 encoder technology, the price point of the product stays down.
:) Q.
Click to expand...


Gee: Thanks Qwerty, I did not know that! tell me how to do it and there will be one less objection from me. Give me a step by step on setting up my mp3 encoder to work IN Sonar.
Thanks
Peace
Bill
 
$179 a year = $15 per month

First Off;I have the right to decide if I think an upgrade is worth it for ME without being scorned for my position. :rolleyes: :cool: :) :p

Ok $179 per year = $15 per month. Just to stay updated. :eek:
Well my monthly gas bill is up 100% over last year. :eek:
My electric is already up 30%.(IN TEXAS) and I need that AC! :mad:
My heating costs will be up at least 50%. :confused:
The grocery bill is up about 20% :o
My real estate taxes have been going up 10 to 15% per year. :mad:

Being an old fart and paying down my mortgage to the point where I now have to use a standard deduction over the past 2 years :D My income taxes have risen 25%! :eek: :eek:
............ and so on

My income is UP a whopping 2% per year. :o Ive had to work a ton of overtime to make ends meet, which gave 80% less time for my recording hobby.
I can only speak for myself, but a monthly payment of $15 to stay updated, just with Sonar, is too much for me to justify.


PS Have you seen the cubase sx3 tutorial??? I have, and it shows me who wants market share.


Peace
Bill
 
wfaraoni said:
My income is UP a whopping 2% per year. :o Ive had to work a ton of overtime to make ends meet, which gave 80% less time for my recording hobby.
I can only speak for myself, but a monthly payment of $15 to stay updated, just with Sonar, is too much for me to justify.
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Even though I wrote above that I thought the price is reasonable, clearly Sonar is still not cheap. And it is true that we can all expect a decline in our quality of living as rising oil/gas prices cause more general inflation. For most people, USD $179 is not pocket change.

Lets keep the tenor of the conversation civil. No one is implying anyone else is a cheapskate for not wanting to upgrade. What Bill says is right--you decide if the update has things you want. To be truthful, I could get by fine with Sonar 2 but I am seduced by the new toys (good marketing Cakewalk)!

Furthermore, Cakewalk should obviously continue to support previous versions, up to a point. Maybe Pro Audio 8 is a bit out of date... However, the nature of computers and software is that some users get bugs, due to their particularly hardware or other software they have. Cakewalk can't pre-test every conceivable configuration prior to release.

I think people who are upset that Cakewalk is release a new version so "soon" after Sonar 4 are being a bit naive, however. They have released a new version every year, so they are keeping to form. Clearly, sales of Sonar 4 are tailing off. Furthermore, Sonar 4 ships with fewer "goodies" than competition such as Logic or Cubase SX, so Cakewalk has to move on to preserve market share.

The MP3 encoder thing is interesting. I was not aware of the royalty issue. However, if you rip a CD using Windows Media Player, don't you have the opportunity of doing so in MP3 format? Is Microsoft paying royalties for every free version of Media Player that is distributed?
 
jamie_drum said:
The MP3 encoder thing is interesting. I was not aware of the royalty issue. However, if you rip a CD using Windows Media Player, don't you have the opportunity of doing so in MP3 format? Is Microsoft paying royalties for every free version of Media Player that is distributed?
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I'm pretty sure WMP player will only rip to .wma format. You don't actually think Microsoft would pay royalties to anyone, do you. :)

And AFAIK the royalties on the .mp3 converter are only if you use the Fraunhofer mp3 codec. Wavelab still ships with an mp3 converter, but they switched to using an open source codec.

However, this is all a non-issue. As Qwerty pointed out, there are free converters available on the net, and they can be installed to work directly from inside Sonar.
 
wfaraoni said:
First Off;I have the right to decide if I think an upgrade is worth it for ME without being scorned for my position. :rolleyes: :cool: :) :p
Click to expand...

Absolutely you have that right Bill and I apologise if it appeared like I was attacking you personally as that was not my intention.

In the time I have spent on this board, you have always been nice, helpful and friendly. I sure would not want to make the experience nasty.

Yes - I did quote you and then vent, but I had just been wading through page after page of ungrateful bitching over on the Cakewalk forum and was rather cross.

Again - apologies if I appeared as though I was foaming at the mouth in your general direction.

Regards, (and enjoy the weekend!)

Q.
 
Qwerty

No apology was needed. We here seem to all respect and appreciate the Cakewalk folks. My intention was not to get in a debate but rather to get the attention of the marketing folks at Cakewalk who are always trying to pry my pocket open.
The reality of todays dramatic financial changes need to be known and expressed ASAP. I think I can see what is coming down the road (economy wise) and it isn't pretty. I have been, for the last 30 years, financially independent and quite secure. At no time in the past has the urge to tighten up the belt been as strong as it feels right now.
Sonar and my whole music experience is funded completely using my expendible cash as it should since it is certainly not a neccesity. If the cakewalk folks want to pry my pocket open they need to make an offer I can't refuse. For me, well, They have not done that.

Peace
Bill
 
Good thread.

I think part of the problem is that Sonar is a pretty damn good program already and it becomes a harder sell with each successive version.Most of us have set ways of doing things and unless you're a real power user the upgrades provide frills rather than necessities.

Money is getting tight at my house too. :(


One question that always gets asked and I'll ask it again is "what more would you like from Sonar?"

For me it would be the ability to go start to finished CD from within Sonar.
 
drpfeffer said:
Hmmm..

One feature that I could really use was the convolution verb, as I use Impulse responses alot, I use SIR which is freeware and really pulls teeth on the cpu, actually I can rarely use it in sonar, so I have to bounce the tracks that i want to put convolution reverb on and do it outside of sonar and then import the tracks back in..

Ideally I wanted to have my verbs on a send in sonar, but SIR is to heavy, I'm thinking that if the new convolution in sonar 5 is working out great, i'm probably going to upgrade, but I think i'll be waiting for the reviews before throwing in another pile of $$$ for the upgrade.
Click to expand...

I'd like to know what the CPU hit is,and the quality.

Plus can you use any impulses or is it some kind of proprietary format?

If it's just a SIR clone it won't do much good.
 
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