Some things to think about when choosing mics.

[Harvey Gerst]

That is sound advice MSH ! and I do have a hand full of go to mics for every - vocal/guitar/drums etc. - application and the usual suspects as back ups if they aren't up to par.
I'm interested in what I have as good microphones being turned into boutique microphones and not having to purchase a $5000. + microphone to get those results and was hoping that when Harvey logged back into HR he would be able to give some insight and answers to this question.

I don't have any "$5000. + microphones"; I do have some nice mics that I got pretty cheap. As MSH pointed out, "mic placement is often more important than mic selection." For example, MXL makes the Genesis, the V69, the 960, and the V67, and all of them have a "Neumann-esque" sound to them.; I can do a decent vocal with any of them. Studio Projects makes the T3 and that's damn similar sounding to the AKG C12.

The MXL 960 and the V67 are downright cheap in price, and can deliver great vocals - for the right singer, in the right position.

The trick to all this stuff is to learn the characteristics of your equipment; learn what it does with different positions and settings. That was the main purpose of the "mic thread"; to help people visualize what the mic does when you move it around.

Our studio does not own ANY modded mics. They're all stock, straight from the factory, eBay, garage sales, Craig's List, forum classifieds, or dealers.

 

[moresound]

Thanks Harvey. I have read your stickyed threads in microphones (Two days of part time reading--whoa!) way before I started to post here on HR and I learned a life time of knowledge from you on microphone polar patterns, placement and recording tech information that's just not freely given out in a small reputable novel such as your locked sticky threads under microphones for all to enjoy and learn from for years to come.

I did purchase a majority of the MXL microphones that you had mentioned that you had great successes with and I found you to be correct as always and love how these microphone capture the sound source,not to mention bang for the buck factor.
but as you had stated , no matter how good a microphone may be, it's just not going to work in particular recording situations.

For example the V67g works stellar for capturing vocals but only about 65 to 70 % of the time I was thinking and hoping the modifications that are offered all over the web by a whole slew of companies and purchasable do-it-yourself kits would raise that percentage to over 80% like as stated by MSH of his friend recording most of his vocal tracks with the U87 a $3000.+ microphone.
I just thought modification of a microphone was to be an ends to the means. But I guess as in tube preamps switching out the stock tube for a ONS classic tube to make the preamp a monster, wouldn't be the same as modding a microphone or would it?
I ask this knowing that what you have are all factory stock microphones and if you didn't have facts or hands on experience to share on the subject than just an opinion on what to look for on the proper way one would WANT a microphone to be modified from you would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mshilarious]

As MSH pointed out, "mic placement is often more important than mic selection."

Which I learned from Harvey

Re: mods, well it's going to depend on the mod, isn't it? Let's start with tube rolling in preamps. I am not aware of a tube swap that makes an ordinary cheap pre into a "monster", and yes I've done that. Vintage tubes do seem to be a bit cleaner than modern tubes, but we have this tendency to describe very small differences as very large ones. They can clean things up a bit, but I wouldn't overpay for that privilege.

Mic mods vary quite a lot more than that. I have seen a combined capsule swap and circuit swap described as a "mod". That's not a mod, it's a brand new microphone in an old case! I would expect it would sound different.

Then you have simple things like capacitor swaps. Capacitors do cause distortion, if a grossly inappropriate part was used. Again, the perception could be a slightly cleaner signal, but it's not going to alter the frequency response of a mic.

On the other hand, you have people remachining cases for SDCs and even the brave are doing LDC backplates. That will alter the frequency response and off-axis response of the mic. Any acoustic mod is likely to be orders of magnitude larger than electrical mods in terms of effect on signal.

Because of that, I would venture that every great mic has to have a great capsule. So if you're looking at a capsule swap, I would purchase the absolute cheapest mic you can find that has a useable body (Behri C1?), then just recycle the body. Building a microphone circuit can be a rather trivial exercise (at least for your basic single-diaphragm mic without a voltage step-up oscillator); the parts count is low and there's plenty of space.

Now you are a micbuilder, not a mic modder

 

[moresound]

Thanks MSH I was only using the preamp as the only example I could think of at the time, kind of like putting a better pick up in a guitar, as an other example.

I see what you mean and you have shed some light on microphone modification and or microphone rebuild to make a brand new different microphone, I guess, I'm just thinking in these terms if you put a bigger/better engine in a mustang you don't end up with a brand new automobile, it's the same mustang only modified with a high performance engine in it.

Harvey....do you have anything to add to my questions in post #56 or more so in post #62 about microphone modification other than the response that I received from MSH? I just thought that there would be more to it than that with all the hype about Modding a microphone.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Thanks MSH I was only using the preamp as the only example I could think of at the time, kind of like putting a better pick up in a guitar, as an other example.

I see what you mean and you have shed some light on microphone modification and or microphone rebuild to make a brand new different microphone, I guess, I'm just thinking in these terms if you put a bigger/better engine in a mustang you don't end up with a brand new automobile, it's the same mustang only modified with a high performance engine in it.

Harvey....do you have anything to add to my questions in post #56 or more so in post #63 about microphone modification other than the response that I received from MSH? I just thought that there would be more to it than that with all the hype about modified a microphone.

Most of my energy during a recording session is spent getting a better performance out of the artist; I don't really obsess about which microphone I'm using (once I've established what mic is close to the sound I want).

With vocals, I generally look for "flattery" over "accuracy," so that usually puts me in the range of LDC's ("warmer" with V67's, Hamburgs, V69, Genesis, JM47, 960, SM7, ribbons, etc., or "brighter" with a T3 or Vienna, or something else).

For most acoustic instruments, it's usually the 603's the SP604's, or SM57's, or whatever I happen to already have on a stand. I'm really not that fussy since moving or rotating just about any mic will usually get me reasonably close, and at that point, it becomes more about concentrating on performance rather than equipment.

Is there an advantage to having your mic modified? Yeah, definitely, but then it's really not the same mic. Capacitors CAN smooth the sound, but I try to use mics that I don't hafta dink around with.

 

[darrin_h2000]

- sell the mics you never use;

- work on becoming a micplacementaholic.

I hate that Idea...basically Ive run short mics in some situations...and I have 42 of them...shit comes up and you have to be equipped...Id say sell what you dont use...and make sure you have enough SM57s to get you by...so when the Philharmonic calls...you can take thier money.

The choice of mic over placement thing is pretty important too...if your mic isnt flattering the source there is little placement can do to help the situation.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

The choice of mic over placement thing is pretty important too...if your mic isnt flattering the source there is little placement can do to help the situation.

I guess we'll hafta agree to disagree on that.

 

[dgatwood]

I guess we'll hafta agree to disagree on that.

Depends on what "not flattering" means.

 

[darrin_h2000]

I guess we'll hafta agree to disagree on that.

Then why not just do all your sessions with an SM57...they can do the job if that is all you have...but even you have to admit that you change the mics on the stands every once in a while due to the fact that some are better at some things than others...knowing where to place them is important...but the quote "The right tool for the right job" rings true.

 

[darrin_h2000]

I recorded a Steinway Baby Grand in Suzanne Michell's teaching studio that is the living room of her house.

I have to ask this...because Ive only been able to record Stienways and Bosendorfers because I know a few millionares ...why would someone who can afford a Stienway screw with teaching piano?

 

[moresound]

Most of my energy during a recording session is spent getting a better performance out of the artist; I don't really obsess about which microphone I'm using (once I've established what mic is close to the sound I want).

With vocals, I generally look for "flattery" over "accuracy," so that usually puts me in the range of LDC's ("warmer" with V67's, Hamburgs, V69, Genesis, JM47, 960, SM7, ribbons, etc., or "brighter" with a T3 or Vienna, or something else).

For most acoustic instruments, it's usually the 603's the SP604's, or SM57's, or whatever I happen to already have on a stand. I'm really not that fussy since moving or rotating just about any mic will usually get me reasonably close, and at that point, it becomes more about concentrating on performance rather than equipment.

Is there an advantage to having your mic modified? Yeah, definitely, but then it's really not the same mic. Capacitors CAN smooth the sound, but I try to use mics that I don't hafta dink around with.

Thanks Harvey I see where you are coming from - choose the right tool to work with and get that artist to get the juices of creativity flowing so you can capture it.
Thanks again and I guess I'll brush up on my knowledge of the proper capacitors in any given microphone circuit design. Just in case I'm in the mode for a mod.

 

[XLR]

Mic positioning matters MUCH more than mic type.

This of course assumes you're not making a gross mismatch in mic selection. Like a D112 on flute. But who knows. Harvey's probably got a story and soundclip of how he used one in a pinch while doing live sound for Jethro Tull.

Darrin, obviously what Harvey is saying is that a number of mic's can work on a source and instead of being overly picky, it's better to place it skillfully.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Darrin, obviously what Harvey is saying is that a number of mic's can work on a source and instead of being overly picky, it's better to place it skillfully.

I do agree with that when you put it that way.

 

[WhiteStrat]

I have to ask this...because Ive only been able to record Stienways and Bosendorfers because I know a few millionares ...why would someone who can afford a Stienway screw with teaching piano?

A) You don't have to be rich to have a Steinway; it just has to be a priority--like maybe a nice piano instead of a nice car. Hmmm? or B) Maybe she has a Steinway because she does have some money. So what? Can't she teach piano because she loves it?

All the millionaires I know love music...

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Then why not just do all your sessions with an SM57...they can do the job if that is all you have...but even you have to admit that you change the mics on the stands every once in a while due to the fact that some are better at some things than others...knowing where to place them is important...but the quote "The right tool for the right job" rings true.

Another "sticky" in this forum ("Some Thoughts about Better, Best, and Mic Recommendations") covers that point in more detail. At one point, I recall Bob Ohlsson saying that all Motown used as microphones on everything was the KM86. The Shure SM57 can produce decent results for a lot of different sources, including vocals.

For fun, when the Neumann TLM103 came out, I used it to record all the instruments in a country band, plus all the vocals. The song appeared on the first set of CD's we put out for the rec.audio.pro compilation. The mic worked well for the guitars, mandolin, upright bass, steel guitar (amp), fiddle, and all the vocals (lead and backup singers). Borderline Nights

For another group (bluegrass), I just used a bunch of MXL 603's on guitar, dobro, fiddle, banjo, and mandolin, and a Behringer ECM8000 on upright bass. Turned out very well. Red Wing

I guess what I'm trying to say is that a lot of people on the forums obsess about getting the "perfect mic", while the real truth is there are many mics in that person's typical mic collection that will probably work just fine.

 

[darrin_h2000]

A) You don't have to be rich to have a Steinway; it just has to be a priority--like maybe a nice piano instead of a nice car. Hmmm? or B) Maybe she has a Steinway because she does have some money. So what? Can't she teach piano because she loves it?

All the millionaires I know love music...

A Stienway...given that its not beat up or there are tuning problems with a harp is the same amount as a ferrarri...or about 5 e-class mercedes automobiles...roughly $180,000.

The sad thing is that I know some players that are the best Ive ever heard that cannot afford even a modest baby grand...and I know people who have a Stienway 8' piano because it looks good with the decor.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Another "sticky" in this forum ("Some Thoughts about Better, Best, and Mic Recommendations") covers that point in more detail. At one point, I recall Bob Ohlsson saying that all Motown used as microphones on everything was the KM86. The Shure SM57 can produce decent results for a lot of different sources, including vocals.

For fun, when the Neumann TLM103 came out, I used it to record all the instruments in a country band, plus all the vocals. The song appeared on the first set of CD's we put out for the rec.audio.pro compilation. The mic worked well for the guitars, mandolin, upright bass, steel guitar (amp), fiddle, and all the vocals (lead and backup singers). Borderline Nights

For another group (bluegrass), I just used a bunch of MXL 603's on guitar, dobro, fiddle, banjo, and mandolin, and a Behringer ECM8000 on upright bass. Turned out very well. Red Wing

I guess what I'm trying to say is that a lot of people on the forums obsess about getting the "perfect mic", while the real truth is there are many mics in that person's typical mic collection that will probably work just fine.

The last 2 Steely Dan records were done with Shure KSM32s exclusively...thats one of the things that sold me on mine.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

The last 2 Steely Dan records were done with Shure KSM32s exclusively...thats one of the things that sold me on mine.

Yup, doing a whole album with just one model of mic can be fun for an engineer, but it just reinforces my point about most mics not caring about what they're used for; that's the job of the engineer - and determining the correct placement for a desired sound.

 

[moresound]

Well I've got a project coming in tomorrow.

I'll try out the single microphone technique on this artist for it won't be a big demand in the time factor to do a little experimentation.

Female vocals with various acoustical instruments.

I think I'll start with a AKG 414.

I'll post back with my results & findings.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Well I've got a project coming in tomorrow.

I'll try out the single microphone technique on this artist for it won't be a big demand in the time factor to do a little experimentation.

Female vocals with various acoustical instruments.

I think I'll start with a AKG 414.

I'll post back with my results & findings.

The C414 might be the mic to do that...I didnt love mine on everything though...but acoustic instruments and female voice it did the trick...I replaced mine with a KSM44 and havent regretted that...there should be a shootout involving the C414...u87...AT4050...and a KSM44.