gusfmm said:
This is so BS that I don't think you even thought about it when you wrote this. Or perhaps you did... probably...
What if I play C Ionian over a C7 chord? What if I played a whole tone scale over a C7 chord? What if I played a disminished scale over a C7 chord? What if I played a (let's use guitar player's terminology) minor pentatonic scale over a C7 chord? How about the relative harmonic minor? Or perhaps A Aeolian???
Is any of those LESS TECHNICALLY CORRECT than your Mixolydian??? For God's sake.
In a TECHNICAL, THEORETICAL sense, yes they are less correct. Here we go:
The reason most people don't play Ionian over C7 is that the B clashes with the Bb.
The reason most people don't play whole tone over C7 is that the F# and G# clash with the G. (We're not talking about an altered C7 here.)
You could play a diminished scale over an unaltered C7 and it won't clash. Only the half-whole diminished though. The whole-half diminished would clash. And of course most people play a diminished scale over 7th chords with altered 9ths.
The reason most people don't play a minor pentatonic over a C7 chord is that the Eb would clash with the E.
The reason most people don't play the relative harmonic minor (in this case A harmonic minor) over a C7 chord is that the G# would clash with the G and the B would clash with the Bb.
A Aeolian is the same as C Ionian. You repeated yourself there. The B would clash with the Bb.
Now, if you study any basic jazz improv book, they're going to tell you the same thing. I really don't understand why you're being so pedantic about this. You obviously know that the Mixolydian if the 5th mode of the major scale, and you're dead set on saying that dominant chords ALWAYS suggest the key a 5th below (and you still have yet to explain a blues progression using that logic), so the "technically" correct mode for a 7th chord would be Mixolydian. I really don't understand the big deal about this.
I didn't say it's the only scale you can use; I didn't say any other scale was wrong. But just as Dorian is the "technically" correct mode that corresponds to the ii chord, Mixolydian is the technically correct mode that corresponds to the V chord. ANY basic book on jazz improv will second this. I challenge you to find one that doesn't.
Oh yeah, of course, if you pick those you are interested in and on top of that, you use only triads. So let me reformulate your question and still use your same F major example:
What if you got:
F Am Dm C
Can you tell whether this is F major again?
No. Those could be in C major of F major. What's your point? My point was that you don't need a V chord to identify a tonal center and I proved that. What's your point?
Now, had you used tetrads, then it'd another whole ball game. And not only that, but we haven't even gotten into harmonizing a minor scale such as the harmonic minor, or melodic minor. There are certainly much more possibilities there.
What does this have to do with the price of eggs? Again, my point was that you don't need a V chord to identify a tonal center.
A dominant chord ALWAYS defines a key center, and go back to your Harmony 101 school books. Even if the chord doesn't resolve to the tonic but to a relative V, or a substitute V7 or II-V7 progression, as is the ABC of Jazz music. Each V7 defines a especific key center. The way you play on those chord changes is by identifying the harmonic center of each "cluster" of chords (normally by recognizing the V7) and playing on the key of the I (tonic) chord corresponding to that. There are other ways too. And often, even the V7 is missing, so you have to "understand the context" of the chord changes.
Again, you still haven't answered this question. So, if you have a blues in C, and the chords are C7, F7, and G7, then should be thinking of playing in the keys of F, Bb, and C, respectively? If you think I don't know what a "dominant" chord is, or why it's called "dominant," then you're just simply mistaken. All I'm saying is that there are exceptions to this rule. A blues is the most obvious of all. If you have a stream of ii-V chords, then yes it's obvious that the V chord is the clue to the temporary key. But I could name a hundred songs where the I chord is a 7th chord. And in those instances, the 7th chord is NOT implying the key a 5th below! It IS the tonic! How can I put this more plainly?
Talk to anybody who's got formal quality music theory training and you'll hear this book highlighted over any other method, provided you've got at least basic harmony studies before, as it's not the easiest one to use, but it's certainly the cornerstone of modern harmony.
The "cornerstones" of "modern" harmony had been in place long, long before this book.
