Small Room Acoustics

jhbrandt

Acoustic Design
Great info in your videos - specially for those who are in the construction phase of their studio room. For those of us using a pre-existing room, not so much. Our rooms are the dimensions we've got. And 'small' is relative, too. Your room mode demo video, for example - almost a 12' ceiling. I wish I had 12 feet in any dimension in my room. Membrane traps? Great, again, if you've got room for them. If i put as many thick traps as you show in my room, I wouldn't have room for the desk or chair to sit in!

I forgot to mention....
Membrane traps are for concrete rooms!
NOT for use in framed construction.
Same for Helmholtz, panel, perf, etc. - Go Broadband!
Cheers,
John
 

bLUiVORY

= Mojo Worker =
... If you're not sure, you should do more research...

Thanks. Point taken.

In the interim, I'll use the outdoor temperature here addling my brain for an excuse. Here in Michigan, I awoke to -11 celsius. What's the temp there?
 

jhbrandt

Acoustic Design
Thanks. Point taken.

In the interim, I'll use the outdoor temperature here addling my brain for an excuse. Here in Michigan, I awoke to -11 celsius. What's the temp there?

LOL!!!

It's 11 pm here and 27 degrees C outside (that's 80.6 F)
Cheers!
John
 

andrushkiwt

New member
Necro post!

So, I recently got monitors, HS8, and I've begun mixing some music on them this week. The bedroom/office isn't treated, and there is a lot of wall space and emptiness in general. I'm looking into the best way to position panels, and just what type I will need.

I wanted to see if any particular notes stood out or rang out, for fun. I loudly blurted out a loud sound (like an "ooh") in deep notes. Whenever I sang "ooh" in B (root 2nd fret A string, bass guitar), there was dead silence and no reverberation. But, whenever I blurted out "ohh" in A (open A string, bass), there was a massive echo/reverb.

What's up with that?
 

Pinky

and The Brain...
Necro post!

So, I recently got monitors, HS8, and I've begun mixing some music on them this week. The bedroom/office isn't treated, and there is a lot of wall space and emptiness in general. I'm looking into the best way to position panels, and just what type I will need.

I wanted to see if any particular notes stood out or rang out, for fun. I loudly blurted out a loud sound (like an "ooh") in deep notes. Whenever I sang "ooh" in B (root 2nd fret A string, bass guitar), there was dead silence and no reverberation. But, whenever I blurted out "ohh" in A (open A string, bass), there was a massive echo/reverb.

What's up with that?

Is something resonating at the A note? Try looping that note and move around the room to see if it's louder in a certain spot, and if something might be to blame.

Also, I noticed in the other thread you were using stands - is there any isolation in the stands, base of the stands, and/or under the monitors? The monitors will vibrate the stands, which will send that frequency into the floor, etc. I use rather expensive isolation stands with my monitors but there are cheaper options. Miro(?) uses marble slabs, others use foam. They even make cheaper foam pads to go under the monitors to help alleviate this problem.

Panels, bass traps, some even get away with throwing rugs or blankets on the walls. Budget will certainly play a role in what you decide. To be done right, panels can be a bit costly(?). I'm guessing solely based on your choice in monitors that you're not looking to spend a lot of money...
 

andrushkiwt

New member
I'm guessing solely based on your choice in monitors that you're not looking to spend a lot of money...

Oh come on, $700 for monitors is not particularly cheap. I didn't even spend that on my Gibson or Fenders. It's a decent price. I could never understand why something made of just foam is so pricey. It's f-in foam, for crying out loud! I'd spend a few hundred bucks, but not going to drop a grand for pieces of foam. I can't justify that, even for whatever results it gives.

The stands aren't reverberating. I think the guitars in the room, probably the acoustic, is exacerbating the situation. It's just weird that one note rings loudly and another, just one step up, does not at all.
 

Pinky

and The Brain...
Oh come on, $700 for monitors is not particularly cheap. I didn't even spend that on my Gibson or Fenders. It's a decent price. I could never understand why something made of just foam is so pricey. It's f-in foam, for crying out loud! I'd spend a few hundred bucks, but not going to drop a grand for pieces of foam. I can't justify that, even for whatever results it gives.

The stands aren't reverberating. I think the guitars in the room, probably the acoustic, is exacerbating the situation. It's just weird that one note rings loudly and another, just one step up, does not at all.

I have cheap monitors too. And yes, $700 is cheap. The good news is we get a lot for our money nowadays. ;)

Could be as simple as physically putting the acoustic guitar somewhere else in the room.
 

andrushkiwt

New member
I have cheap monitors too. And yes, $700 is cheap. The good news is we get a lot for our money nowadays. ;)

Could be as simple as physically putting the acoustic guitar somewhere else in the room.

I wouldn't agree. I see many monitors going for $100-$400 for the pair. That's cheap. Yeah, I'll move that guitar elsewhere and see if that's the issue.
 
You need to find out what is resonating. It could be the room, or it could be something in the room.
It could be both.

If it's an instrument it may not really matter. Unless it's sitting right beside you it's probably not going to be audible or distracting when you're mixing.
If it's the room, it will probably cause you problems.

All of your acoustic instruments will 'like it' when you sing a certain note. My new (old) yamaha resonates to a G where my old one was at Eb, IIRC.
Rooms do the same; My brother's entrance porch in his old house likes an A.
It'll be much more obvious in a room with flat and parallel walls, which is why those are top 2 on the list of things to avoid in studios.

The fact that one notes rings clearly and the next does not is not weird at all, although it may seem it.
It's the foundation of the creation of music - A valve-less instrument like an old bugle won't be able to play a scale, but it will be able to play a harmonic series.
If you could sing loud enough I'm pretty sure your room (or guitar or whatever it is) would ring in sympathy to the same series, starting from that A you found.
 

mjbphotos

What?!?
Oh come on, $700 for monitors is not particularly cheap. I didn't even spend that on my Gibson or Fenders. It's a decent price. I could never understand why something made of just foam is so pricey. It's f-in foam, for crying out loud! I'd spend a few hundred bucks, but not going to drop a grand for pieces of foam. I can't justify that, even for whatever results it gives.

The stands aren't reverberating. I think the guitars in the room, probably the acoustic, is exacerbating the situation. It's just weird that one note rings loudly and another, just one step up, does not at all.

NOOOOOOOOO! Stop spending money on foam! I assume you mean you got those Auralex speaker foam pads? Way overpriced, but they look nice. I just used a couple of cheap 'acoustic foam' (egg crate style) pieces, cut to size under my monitors.

So now you are beginning to understand why we were always mentioning acoustic treatment when you got monitors! But the good news is you don't have to spend a fortune, if you can handle a screw gun, stapler and a saw.
Start small - 6 4" thick rockwool panels, should cost you $250 or less, depending on how much you splurge for the material to cover them. Even less, if you don't frame them, and just cover the rockwool. 2" thick will work for your ceiling cloud and point-of-first-reflection, but you can use the 4", move them around, and see what happens. Rear corners of the room for sure is the first place to treat.
 

Pinky

and The Brain...
I wouldn't agree. I see many monitors going for $100-$400 for the pair. That's cheap. Yeah, I'll move that guitar elsewhere and see if that's the issue.

$700 puts us into a decent mid range model, for a single monitor. You don't have to agree, that's just the pricing structure. Good monitors approach $2,000+ each to start. Focal is a good example of industry wide pricing structure. $400 average each for entry level, $750+ for mid range, then upwards from there (literally thousands for each monitor).

Sorry if you had other thoughts about what you bought. Enjoy them for what they are, and if you decide they're useful you can always upgrade. The ceiling is about as high as your bank account allows. I personally find my lower end monitors work fine for what I need them to accomplish.
 

Trombosaurus

New member
small room acoustics

Hi there, I am new to this forum and I deemed that is the correct thread for my questions.

I am creating a recording space in a very small space and am looking for advice on a couple of things.
about the space ( see attached Sketchup drawings) this will be a room within a room in my basement, my teenage kids ( lovers of loud music,,,, I really don’t know where they get this from :) have their bedrooms right above, the floor is concrete, plumbing and freezers are in the big rectangular room next to the recording space so some sound is generated there. I know nothing about acoustics and treatment!

question #1: when I build the new wall( see drawings), in order to save some space, do you think that I could leave the studs open to the inside and fill them with mineral wool and clad with fabric to obtain some trapping and still get sound proofing? would it help if I did 2 layers of drywall on the outside of the new wall spaced 1” ? I looked at the chart and illustrations from Goldman and it seems like 1 inch of dead airspace could be effective

Any suggestions for treating this room with the “trap wall “ in mind, with or without depending how you rule? it has to function as a recording booth for various instruments and vocals and potentially drums.

Question #2: take a look at my ceiling detail would you change anything to get max sound proofing?, I am floating the new ceiling to decouple it from the existing joists, but do not want (if possible) to lower the ceiling more that 1 inch from the existing joists as it is already a low ceiling.

Question #3: would the new floating ceiling benefit from the ceiling joists being placed on some sort of rubber? I am not planning on using fasteners for the joists ( I spent many years as a carpenter and can make this work, I know I know,,, what will happen when i push the drywall up against the joists to fasten it?
I am stubborn and creative :)

I would appreciate any and all feedback
Best
Lars
Durango Colorado
It appears that I can't post any pictures/images until I post a few times,, so I am just gonna say hi a few times and then post the images.....
 

Trombosaurus

New member
Hi I am still working on the clearance for attachments ( eyerolll )
 

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mjbphotos

What?!?
You posted this in the sticky about small room acoustics. You should start a new thread with your specific questions.

That's a really small space, almost square - not good - by the time you put some acoustic treatment in corners you'll barely have room to swing a guitar. You won't get it 'soundproof' without floating a floor and walls double-studded, similar to the ceiling design you have.
 

ikemusiclive8

New member
Wow. Done deal. Sticky it is, and about time. John, I have to congratulate you for being the FIRST Pro Studio designer to post advice in a STICKY on HR! Fantastic. In that regard, I too am getting ready to start a series of Sketchup illustrations on various construction and treatment subjects, and have been offered a chance to make it a sticky as well. I have tons of illustrations I have modeled over the years, but frankly, if you don't mind, I may need you to "verify" the validity of each. But first, I have to organize them into a series of common sense sequences. And that will take me some time. In the meantime..Happy New Year!
That's a lot to take in. I'm new and haven't built a home studio yet and need a home studio for dummies breakdown if you will. Could you help a fella out? Is it okay to setup my home studio and record in my garage? If so, what are your recommendations? You say use a room mode calculator as an aspect. Overall vould you give me a step by step breakdown of how can I best make a garage studio work?
 

Folkcafe

Active member
Haven't seen John post in a while. I know he is busy with the book he is writing. He is more active on his Facebook group but even there, he is not posting much. Create a new post in the Studio Building forum and I and others can walk you through some of the basics. I am familiar with a lot of the tools he hosts on his website and the acoustic concepts behind them. Start with downloading the control room calculator Here
 
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