Ska brass

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StAbZ

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ok, when i've heard people in cheapish studios record trumpets and trombones before, they always have a lame mellow sound. for ska in professional recordings the brass sound really harsh, how do people go about getting that sound? i thought that maybe some people let the brass slightly distort to get that harsh kinda sound?

the suitable mics i have are an SE2200, shure 57beta and an AKG C1000S....
 
It's not JUST mics, it's a combination of the preamps, mics, and the room.
 
StAbZ said:
ok, when i've heard people in cheapish studios record trumpets and trombones before, they always have a lame mellow sound. for ska in professional recordings the brass sound really harsh, how do people go about getting that sound? i thought that maybe some people let the brass slightly distort to get that harsh kinda sound?

the suitable mics i have are an SE2200, shure 57beta and an AKG C1000S....
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Use your C1000S pointed straight at the bell of the horns - about 2' out from the horns, at the same height as the horns.
 
StAbZ said:
yeah i know, but it's mainly the mics and mixing....
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Actually, I would disagree. I found that nothing sounded good until I spent a lot of time and effort fixing my space. Then my sound opened up.

Until then, it was garbage in/garbage out.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
Use your C1000S pointed straight at the bell of the horns - about 2' out from the horns, at the same height as the horns.
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Hey, Harvey! Not to hijack this thread, but I am a trumpet player, and I have a AEA R84. How would you go about recording a trumpet with this ribbon?

Thanks!
 
fraserhutch said:
Actually, I would disagree. I found that nothing sounded good until I spent a lot of time and effort fixing my space. Then my sound opened up.

Until then, it was garbage in/garbage out.
Click to expand...

i know studios that have custom built rooms. for instance, my college has a huge soundproof booth, perfect for recording anything, no reverb at all, even really high pitched stuff.... yet the brass will still sound weak. the trumpets always make a very individual sound, u can just listen to it and imagine one guy playing this part, whereas in professional recordings it sounds like some kinda super trumpet playing machine with 7 at the same time
 
StAbZ said:
i know studios that have custom built rooms. for instance, my college has a huge soundproof booth, perfect for recording anything, no reverb at all, even really high pitched stuff.... yet the brass will still sound weak. the trumpets always make a very individual sound, u can just listen to it and imagine one guy playing this part, whereas in professional recordings it sounds like some kinda super trumpet playing machine with 7 at the same time
Click to expand...

to me, that's room and recording technique more than mic and mic-pre.

My opinion, worth what you paid for it :)
 
fraserhutch said:
Hey, Harvey! Not to hijack this thread, but I am a trumpet player, and I have a AEA R84. How would you go about recording a trumpet with this ribbon?
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This mic is very forgiving regarding distance. I'd start at around 3 feet away and adjust from there. Probably no closer than 2' and as much as 6' away, depending on the room and sound you're going for.

The back side of the AEA R84 has a slightly brighter sound than the front side. Also, dont be afraid to try rotating the mic, so that you're not coming in directly from the front or back. Try maybe 15 degrees off axis. A lot of it will depend on the room and style you're playing, even the key (although that's less of a problem with ribbon mics).

If you plan to stack tracks to do a horn section, record each track at a slightly different angle and distance. It'll blend better in the final mix.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
This mic is very forgiving regarding distance. I'd start at around 3 feet away and adjust from there. Probably no closer than 2' and as much as 6' away, depending on the room and sound you're going for.

The back side of the AEA R84 has a slightly brighter sound than the front side. Also, dont be afraid to try rotating the mic, so that you're not coming in directly from the front or back. Try maybe 15 degrees off axis. A lot of it will depend on the room and style you're playing, even the key (although that's less of a problem with ribbon mics).

If you plan to stack tracks to do a horn section, record each track at a slightly different angle and distance. It'll blend better in the final mix.
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Excellent, thanks for the tips!

I can't wait to try it out!
 
fraserhutch said:
to me, that's room and recording technique more than mic and mic-pre.
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I'd have to say that even more important is the skill of the players. Voicing and blending are no easier for horn players than for singers, and the professionals are, well, GOOD.
 
once again i'll add source, if you play with a mellow sound, you will record a mellow sound.

THE PLAYER is the biggest determining factor here, again.
i often record a friend who plays bone, and he gets pissey if his horn is to nice, he really just likes a sm57.

but he plays the way he wants it to sound.
 
i've been playing trombone for 11 years, it more depends on what trombone you use than technique, some trombones sound brighter than others. I think the problem is that brass players are situated so close to mics that they feel they can't blast the notes. In professional recordings all the notes sound kind of blasted....
 
StAbZ said:
i know studios that have custom built rooms. for instance, my college has a huge soundproof booth, perfect for recording anything, no reverb at all, even really high pitched stuff.... yet the brass will still sound weak. the trumpets always make a very individual sound, u can just listen to it and imagine one guy playing this part, whereas in professional recordings it sounds like some kinda super trumpet playing machine with 7 at the same time
Click to expand...

that's your problem...the soundbooth is TOO dead for what you need. with big trumpet/sax sections they will probably usually play all together in the same room...which is generally a bigger live room. Yeah, you'll get bleed of the microphones but IMO this may even thicken up the sound a little bit more. And now you're not in a dead room....a trumpet is a powerful instrument that benefits a lot from a reverbrant space. Like you said, you play trombone. Do you think you get a better sound in a practice room or in a concert hall?

Maybe also try mic'ing them as a section instead of individually. Throw up a stereo pair and record that way. It's called a trumpet SECTION ain't it?
 
StAbZ said:
In professional recordings all the notes sound kind of blasted....
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yea, brent (bone player) has commented on this in the past
he blows kinda hard (technique)
he has a mid line (not sure what) yahama (instrument)

guy lombardo (spelling???) would never sound right in a ska band, no matter how you mic'ed him.
 
AGCurry said:
I'd have to say that even more important is the skill of the players. Voicing and blending are no easier for horn players than for singers, and the professionals are, well, GOOD.
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Absolutely - yes, I agree, the player is the most important part of the equation.
 
StAbZ said:
i've been playing trombone for 11 years, it more depends on what trombone you use than technique, some trombones sound brighter than others. I think the problem is that brass players are situated so close to mics that they feel they can't blast the notes. In professional recordings all the notes sound kind of blasted....
Click to expand...


Oddly enough - I've been playing trumpet for what, over 25 years now - I find that I sound more or less the same regardless of the make of horn I play.

Generally, when I am recorded, I don't get that close to the mic.
 
ur wrong, nickel bells are brighter than brass, gold brass bells are brighter than copper brass.... instruments sound different. also, if you played on a D trumpet instead of Bb the higher notes would sound a lot nicer. ofcourse instrument makes a difference, just because how easy it is to play doesn't change doesn't mean the sound doesn't also change. you can't hear what's coming out from a foot infront of you properly.
in ska music, it's not so much the technique the player has, it's the confidence, strength and how well the particular instrument projects that
 
StAbZ said:
ur wrong, nickel bells are brighter than brass, gold brass bells are brighter than copper brass.... instruments sound different. also, if you played on a D trumpet instead of Bb the higher notes would sound a lot nicer. ofcourse instrument makes a difference, just because how easy it is to play doesn't change doesn't mean the sound doesn't also change. you can't hear what's coming out from a foot infront of you properly.
in ska music, it's not so much the technique the player has, it's the confidence, strength and how well the particular instrument projects that
Click to expand...

So you're saying a mediocre player can sound good - in ska - if he has a good horn?
 
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