S
SilverSurfer
New member
HangDawg said:Tell that to John Petrucci.
He's not using an 'off the shelf' Mesa either.
He's not using an 'off the shelf' Mesa either.
S
SilverSurfer
New member
Monsoon said:Yeah, I appreciate that. But no matter what anyone says, a Mesa is going to be on my final list. As will a Marshall. And after that, my own ears will make my decision. And then I can join in on the piss fights.
Go the guitar center and try all the amps out. What you will NOT find at Guitar Center is a 30th Anniversary Marshall.
Pit that against the Triple "Rectumfire" (haha, sorry, couldn't resist!) and it'll blow it away. There's just no comparision between a good Marshall and a Rectifyer amp.
Now, the older Mesa Mark IV *IS* a good amp and if you can find one, try it out. I think the older amps of the 70s/80s/Early 90s are better than anything on the market right now.
This is just my opinion of course, from many years of playing live and listening to thousands of bands, I would rank them this way:
1. Marshall 30th Anniversary Blue Tolex
2. Marshall 30th Anniversary with EL34s (not the 5881s!)
3. Mesa Boogie Mark IV
4. Marshall Plexi
5. Marshall JCM800 (Don't get the JCM900, it stinks!)
6. Everything else
Good luck!
D
donkeystyle
New member
SilverSurfer said:
how do you know that?
thrice uses an unmodified mesa either dual or triple rectifier.......i believe it was even purchased on ebay........and they definitely used it in the studio and i've heard them live and they have great tone and clarity for the kind of music they play. they have a ton of intricate guitar parts and you can hear everything just fine.
it's ignorant to think that (insert the brand you've been sold on here) is the one and only brand that can make a good amp, or guitar, or anything really.
i've heard all kinds of different people talk about how all kinds of different brands are crap. that doesn't make it true.
the original poster may be into the mesa's. they may not. they might not be into the marshalls either.
monsoon. if you're going to play live, you'll probably want at least a 50 watt amp.
if you don't play live, you will want a super low wattage amp......the gibson ga-5 is an awesome sounding little amp. it can get pretty loud if you turn it up and has plenty of distortion. then for solos, you can use an overdrive pedal. that's more of a 70's ac/dc and led zepplin type sound though. i dunno if that's what you meant by hard rock though.
i'm sure somone else can suggest a really great sounding low wattage amp also.
DogFood
New member
I believe the concept behind the single double trip. is clean/overdrive/lead. Plus, major tone variablity. However, I read somewhere that the last one that had good tone was the dual rect. without the diamond tread face plate. I think those had tremelo/verb on'm too. Apparently, after that one amp they lost their touch. also. from what I've picked up, the newer dual-trips are nu-metal only. No blues, jazz, classic rock, hard rock, any other players won"t touch'm. I am also curious what the low down on this amp is. why can't salesmen know their amps???
Farview
Well-known member
Dude, I love marshals too. Mesas are not like Marshalls in that you don't just get the one sound out of them. If you play with the tone controls, the type of distortion changes. Those switches on the back completely change the circuit of the amp, if you don't know what they do, you can get yourself into trouble with them. (as you have found out) The guitar player from Dream Theater uses these things, I believe the man can play.SilverSurfer said:
BTW some of the things that Jose would do to a Marshall are built in to a Mesa. You just have to know enough about amps to be able to take advantage of it.
I know John from Dream Theater and he DOES use off the shelf Mesas.
HangDawg
bUnGhOlIo
Farview said:
It's clear that this dude doesn't know what he's talking about. The abilty to use 6l6,el34 or kt66 tubes in the same head makes the rectifier's unmatched in it's versatility. That coupled with the bold/spongy power setting along with switchable diode/tube rectifier settings and the vintage/modern settings, I just can't imagine more options in a single head. This head takes more than 2 hours to figure out. More like 2 months.
Farview
Well-known member
Marshalls are a lot easier. You turn them up and they sound like that, the tone controls don't do much so you can't get too far away from that sound.
distortedrumble
all up in yo grill!
lol mesa? i dont know....I just see mesas all over the place now and decided "hey, it might be cool to have one of those". i saw the prices for them and decided that my peavey is doing me just fine.SilverSurfer said:
B
boingoman
New member
HangDawg said:
Seems to me like you guys are saying the exact same thing.
I'm a big fan of the Mark IV myself. Not for metal, as that's not my bag, but gobs of singy sustain.
It worked for Carlos Santana.
As to the original question:
Tube amps use two kinds of rectifiers. Tube or diode. The rectifier is what converts the AC from the wall to DC, which the amp needs to run. The basic difference between them is speed.
Each time you hit a note, the amp draws power.
Diode rectifiers respond almost instantly, replacing that power. The amp always has a constant power supply.
Tube rectifiers react a bit slower. So as you hit a note, the amp loses a bit of power, then gets it back as the tube catches up. This is where much of the natural compression of a tube amp comes from. The initial sound is reduced in volume, and the amp gets louder as the note decays, increasing sustain. This is called "sag". The power supply sags a bit when you hit it. It gets "spongy".
This can make extremely fast runs bleed together, and can make power chords sound mushy. You gotta be playing at a pretty loud volume for that, though. At most volumes it is a definite plus, IMO. It makes for a nice creamy sound.
Some metal players prefer solid-state rectifiers and/or solid state amps for this reason. The amp sounds "tighter", with better articulation at high speeds. The sound is a bit colder, though.
Dual and triple tube rectifiers are put in amps to preserve some of that natural compression and warmer sound while not letting the amp sag so much at high volumes. The sound is still a tube rectifier, but tighter than a single tube rectifier amp.
J
juststartingout
New member
Let's set the record straight here. I have a triple rect and a Marshall TSL.( http://home.comcast.net/~bonrox/guitars/gut_inv.htm )They are very different sounding amps. You can get the Mesa to sound like the Marshall, or at least close to it, but you cannot get the Marshall to act like the Mesa. The Marshall is easier to set up and has a more consistant sound. It's also a little deeper sounding than the Mesa. I prefer the way it handles the effects loop over the Mesa. The Mesa is a little touchy, but is more versatile. It has more gain and seems to be better for lead. Either one is an excellent choice. The only negative with the Mesa is the number of tubes in it. More tube give you more connections to go bad and more tube to break.
As to the original qusetion, the biggest difference between the single, duel and tri is the number of channels. If you do a lot of switching, get the triple. You can do one setup and just use the footswitch for the entire gig.
If I had to pick one, I would pick the Marshall, but that's me.
As to the original qusetion, the biggest difference between the single, duel and tri is the number of channels. If you do a lot of switching, get the triple. You can do one setup and just use the footswitch for the entire gig.
If I had to pick one, I would pick the Marshall, but that's me.
R
Rocket Boy
New member
Silver Surfer obviously doesnt know much about Mesa's. To me they sound better, are more versatile(i have el34s in mine) and... you have to know how to set them.
They do sound great off the shelf, although I think the el34s sound better for my preferences. Also, if you have a double recto you can remove 2 power tubes and one preamp tube and it'll be 50 watts. So, if you buy the double you're essentially getting the single as well.
They do sound great off the shelf, although I think the el34s sound better for my preferences. Also, if you have a double recto you can remove 2 power tubes and one preamp tube and it'll be 50 watts. So, if you buy the double you're essentially getting the single as well.
HangDawg
bUnGhOlIo
Do the marshalls use a tube or diode rectifier section? The mesa of course has both.
Farview
Well-known member
Marshalls have Diode rectifiersHangDawg said:
¤
-=¤willhaven¤=-
New member
funny... i ditched my marshall cabinets because they were too farty and were over-resonant.
i swapped out two 4x12 marshall cabs for one 4x12 mesa recto cab with chrome side armor, the bass and lower mid range was SO much tighter than with the marshall cabs i had previously (for YEARS)
i went from having a 1972 marshall superlead (which actually put out 150 watts RMS) + the two cabs, to a mesa tripple rectifier for about 4 or 5 years. the recto was a much more versatile amp, but the clean wasnt as clean as i wanted. the low end of the clean stomped all over the areas that should have been nice and crisp. but, when i finally broke down, got rid of my marshall cabs, and got the mesa cab, it all came into focus. the sound got tighter and more clear. both distorted channels and clean channels sounded better.
the mesa cab is larger in size and internal volume, and it is physically more solid than the marshall. its hard as a rock and you get the sound from the shape of the cabinet and the speakers pushing air, not the cabinet vibrating as it had before. for some sounds, thats great... for hard rock or metal, it can be bad. it used to feel more buzzy and unstable, whereas now doing palm muting of low notes only resonates things that aren't bolted down.
having played both marshalls and mesas, i am more partial to the mesa sound. the marshall sound is a bit more nasal, and you will most likely get a MUCH crisper clean sound from a marshall... but for everything in-between and up to full on distortion, i personally prefer the mesa tripple.
i swapped out two 4x12 marshall cabs for one 4x12 mesa recto cab with chrome side armor, the bass and lower mid range was SO much tighter than with the marshall cabs i had previously (for YEARS)
i went from having a 1972 marshall superlead (which actually put out 150 watts RMS) + the two cabs, to a mesa tripple rectifier for about 4 or 5 years. the recto was a much more versatile amp, but the clean wasnt as clean as i wanted. the low end of the clean stomped all over the areas that should have been nice and crisp. but, when i finally broke down, got rid of my marshall cabs, and got the mesa cab, it all came into focus. the sound got tighter and more clear. both distorted channels and clean channels sounded better.
the mesa cab is larger in size and internal volume, and it is physically more solid than the marshall. its hard as a rock and you get the sound from the shape of the cabinet and the speakers pushing air, not the cabinet vibrating as it had before. for some sounds, thats great... for hard rock or metal, it can be bad. it used to feel more buzzy and unstable, whereas now doing palm muting of low notes only resonates things that aren't bolted down.
having played both marshalls and mesas, i am more partial to the mesa sound. the marshall sound is a bit more nasal, and you will most likely get a MUCH crisper clean sound from a marshall... but for everything in-between and up to full on distortion, i personally prefer the mesa tripple.
S
SilverSurfer
New member
Rocket Boy said:
My what an odd statement. You basically said my opinion doesn't matter, only yours does. I've heard enough Mesa's to know the Mark IV blows the Rectumfire's away. All of them.
And the Blue Tolex 30th Anniversary Marshall blows away ANY stock Mesa. Period. If you know TONE, GOOD BROWN TONE, you don't use a Mesa. Period.
Mesa's blow chunks
Last edited:
S
SilverSurfer
New member
donkeystyle said:
If they are good enough to have an endorsment, Mesa will custom make their head to their specs.
Thrice? You mean that god-aweful band that made their only "semi-hit song" by ripping off Def Leppard's Switch 625 riff? That says all you need to know. Thrice is a terrible band.
I'm sure the guts were replaced with a standard Mesa before that happened. Bands don't give away their secrets on eBay.
They must have Marshall guts in those Mesa's. Just like the 5150 does
How long have you been in the music business? After 20 years, I've seen a lot. My parents were in it before me. My dad owns a recording studio (though admittedly I never learned that part of the business from him, but even he'll tell you what they use live and in the studio are never the same). I live near Hollywood and I've played with probably 1000 bands. I've seen what these bands are using. The more famous ones are NOT using stock Mesa amps. Trust me on that.
I asked him a pertinent question:
"Are you going to solo or not?"
He said he is, therefore I wouldn't recommend using a Mesa amp. They are muddy amps best used to copy Godsmack and Disturbed's sound. PLAYERS (people who can actually PLAY a guitar) use Marshall's because if you are a bad guitarist, a Marshall will expose you. But if you are a good/great guitarist, it will really make you shine.
A Mesa played with a tuned down guitar will hide you if you are bad but it will not make you "shine" as a lead guitarist. If you play a 7 string Ibanez, the Mesa is for you...
Both the DSL/TSL and 6100's can cut their wattage in half to 50 with the push of a button. No need to rip out two power tubes or get a teeny amp.
S
SilverSurfer
New member
DogFood said:
Bingo.
Mesa has turned themselves into the "nu-metal" supplier. Bad guitarist won't touch a Marshall. It will expose them.
S
SilverSurfer
New member
Farview said:
Well, I had myself, my other guitarist (25 years experience) and the company that brought the heads helping us try and get a somewhat decent tone out of the triple rectifier and NONE of us succeeded. Come on, it can't be all of us. We had two of those things and they BOTH BLEW CHUNKS! It was embarrassing to play with them and we had to do it in front of 3000+ people.
Mesa body, Marshall guts
Why, that's called MARKETING
He'll never admit it, he'll lose his endorsment. Nobody would buy the amps if they knew they weren't the same.
S
SilverSurfer
New member
HangDawg said:
Well, we had the techs and about 50 years of guitar experience and NONE of us could make the amps sound worth a crap tuned to E440. It's not me bro, it's the crappy amps Mesa makes.
It takes me about 15 seconds to get a good tone from a Marshall. Why does it take 2 hours for Mesa?! Uh, I think the answer is obvious.
S
SilverSurfer
New member
distortedrumble said:
It's built using the Jose Marshall as a reference. Peavy box, Marshall guts
Like I said, if you use a 7 string Ibanez, the Mesa is for you. If you plays solos and care about people hearing your notes, you use a Marshall. PERIOD.