Singer who eats marbles... while singing...

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Bondo

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OK, so here is my situation. A band I am working with has a singer who sings basically like he has a mouthful of marbles. This is the best aproximation of his sound I can give. It is very muddy and does not comethrough very clear. This is true in both live settings as well as the studio. Aside from the obvious of the guy singing better, hwich won't happen, what could I possibly do to improve the sound of the vocal tracks. I have a large number of dynamics, all the common ones, An MXL that I like (LDC) that is very bright sounding, as well as access to a SP B1, and an AKG LDC (dont remember model, its not mine). I run all this through a Onyx, so I feel my signal chain is pretty good. Have tried recording in different places that do sound good including a very bright stairway that sounds really cool. Basically I am looking for mechanical ways to maybe make this a bit more crisp or clear, weather it be a new piece of gear or some sort of processing or technique in relation to the recording or mixing.
 
Run a dynamic through a tube guitar amp combo. I know it sounds silly, but I've had it turn out well.
 
Honestly, why would you want to record a shitty singer? Tell him to practice or shut the hell up! Goodness knows there are enough shitty singer's out there. In my book, audio engineering = capturing sound as accurately and flatteringly as possible. If the singer sucks balls, he sucks balls man, and there's not a hell of a lot you can do about it. It's kind of like asking how to make your solos sound more like Dimebag's. There's no magic "suck less" knob; you (or "he" in this case) just have (has) to get off your (his) ass and practice.

Just being honest man, not trying to discourage you :P
 
i imagine hes doing it intentionally and has no images of grandeur that he will sound amazing recorded? if so, route him through a good dynamic and move on to another element of the mix. if not, send him through a super hyped cheap condenser and let his voice stick out like a sore thumb in the mix so he realizes what hes doing.
 
Well to tell the truth he has made some improvements, but his voice is just rough and deep, so it is difficult to make it more audible. and to make it cut better.
 
I say record him, get paid, let him hear it. (in that order). In general mics don't lie. If he sounds crappy, that mic is gonna be the most honest thing for him.

I agree with Steve.H totally. Mic selection and equipment selection is fine for taking a good performance and capturing it the best you can. A NTK Vs. a AT4050 (my usual vocal choices), each has it's place, but neither is going to fix ol' marble mouth there.
 
1) Use a bright LDC. I suggest the AKG you have access to. AKG's are typically very bright. Try having sing into the mic off axis. Sometimes that can hollow out a thick sounding voice depending on the mic.

2) Record him in the "deadest" location you have access to. Room reflections will push vocals back in a mix and you can't remove room reflections

3) play with the EQ after all tracks are recorded. Cut the lows and try giving a mild boost the the mids and highs. Then compress the shit out the vocals and cut a little of those same mids and highs from the rest of the tracks.

That's about all you can do. if he sucks he sucks.
 
You know, you may want to try listening to his mix in the cans. If you change the way the mix is during tracking, he may change the way he pronounces his vowels. That's what's making him sound like he has marbles in his mouth. It's always the vowel.

If he hears a muddier sound during tracking, he might bring the vowel forward more, which will clear it up.

There is a tendency for people to think they sound fuller, richer, BIGGER by singing all the vowels in the back of the throat. It's very hard to break that habit, but it can be done.

If you have the time, try to get him to feel the words more on his teeth than the back of his throat. Just a little more foreword will really help.

I have a minister I have to eq when recording him speaking. He has hearing problems and he does the same thing. He can hear the sound better when he keeps it in the back, but when he shouts, he is forced to just let it out and it sounds better. If the sound is produced properly, he would not hear it as well because his voice would be projected more away from his body. The old "tip of the tongue to the tip of the teeth" is very true. Keeping that tip of the tongue touching the back of the lower teeth at all times on vowels will really help his singing live.

Here's something you can try to help him keep his tongue down. Get him to sing some with a quarter on his tongue. That forces the tongue to stay flatter in the front and touch the lower teeth. The sound will be more out of his body, but record it and let him hear the difference. The voice should always sit in the "mask", forward. This will take time, but it will really give him more power and more control over his dynamics.

You could also do a few tests so he can hear what you're trying to get him to do.

Just some tips!
 
The off-axis suggestion will help a lot.

I find the whole "tell him he sucks and move on" thing to be funny. I got paid to record people for many years, and for a time sort of tried that approach. Let me tell you man, I made a LOT more money, and dedicated customers when I worked my ass off to try to make them sound as best as they could. The whole "tell them they suck thing" tended to not put food on the table! ;)

Really, as the recording engineer, is it my JOB to tell them they suck? No. I am there to provide a SERVICE to the CUSTOMER. Keeping my opinions to myself, and not telling customers that they "suck" are two great ways to stay in business! You can be as fucking altruistic as you want about the ultimate talent level of the artist you are working with, but in real life, you WILL offend them, even if they ask for your honest opinion.

Yes, I have had cases where I COULD share my honest opinion with the artist and not offend them. But, these were very rare, and a good working relationship had to be established. Also, I had to know for CERTAIN that what I was sharing would serve a GOOD interest in the project. Let's face it, there are just times when you are hearing the best you are going to get from them, and there are no other options, and I have to go to work to make the best of it! How many times have I "fixed" the drummers mistake? Let's see:

Band just paid $1000 for setup, getting sounds, and 10 songs worth of drum takes. There are a few mistakes the drummer made. There is NO WAY he is going to get it right AND have the sound retain some excitement.

a) I tell him the takes suck and make him do it again, thus, taking away money in the budget that most likely the SINGER is going to need! ;)

b) Tell him he sucks and the band breaks up and they go away remembering me as the guy that told their drummer that he sucks that led to the breakup of the band.

c) Fix the fucking drum tracks and move the fuck on!

The "pro" is going to do c every single time!

One trick to deal with this singer is to make him sing "up" to a mic that is above his forehead. This will force him into a better posture for singing, which will also get him out of his throat somewhat. Also, it is quite easy to control the proximity effect of the mic. It also picks up more of the nasal tones of the singer, which tend to help clarity.
 
You say you need for him to be more distinctive in the mix.

Nobody's talked about EQing the OTHER elements in the mix, but IMO that's where you need to focus. Carve out a sonic space for his voice by using subtractive EQ on instrument and any other vocal tracks.
 
AGCurry said:
Nobody's talked about EQing the OTHER elements in the mix, .
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:confused: I covered that already, dammit. :mad: :D

3) play with the EQ after all tracks are recorded. Cut the lows and try giving a mild boost the the mids and highs. Then compress the shit out the vocals and cut a little of those same mids and highs from the rest of the tracks.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
Awww.. really? There go all my hopes and dreams.
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Actually, I think Behringer has one coming out soon... :p
 
VomitHatSteve said:
Awww.. really? There go all my hopes and dreams.
Click to expand...

Maybe not a "suck less" knob, but if you need to add some "suck" to something, and old member here, Slackmaster2000 wrote a pretty cool plugin called.............



you guessed it............


Suck Knob

I am proud to be the ONLY person hosting the world famous Suck Knob. You can download it here:

http://www.phoenixlightandsound.com/SuckKnobVST.zip

Check it out and enjoy! MAKE SURE you follow the installation instructions that are part of the README file in the .zip
 
Ford Van said:
Maybe not a "suck less" knob, but if you need to add some "suck" to something, and old member here, Slackmaster2000 wrote a pretty cool plugin called.............



you guessed it............


Suck Knob

I am proud to be the ONLY person hosting the world famous Suck Knob. You can download it here:

http://www.phoenixlightandsound.com/SuckKnobVST.zip

Check it out and enjoy! MAKE SURE you follow the installation instructions that are part of the README file in the .zip
Click to expand...


is this a virus or something?

what's with the special instructions?
 
zed32 said:
is this a virus or something?

what's with the special instructions?
Click to expand...

Dewd, get real!!! Like I am going to spread a fucking virus, ESPECIALLY since MANY here know my real name. :rolleyes:

The "special instructions" are simply to make sure you have the .dat file on the root of c: so that the plugin can access it.
 
Thanks for all the help with this. Can't wait to get to this session to try some of these out.
 
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