Question about proximity to microphone when singing live.

One consequence of going in close is "popping" the explosive noises caused by your actual exhaled air. The SM58 is designed for close vocal work and it therefore somewhat 'pop protected'. The Beta 57 in more an 'instrument ' mic and might therefore pop rather badly. Investing in a decent foam 'gag' can help a lot and has two other advantages. You can use the foam as a distance measure, so long as your lips are just brushing it you will be 6-10mm off the actual capsule but even better, you will keep a consistent distance song to song. Last but maybe not least! The gag will capture spit and can be washed periodically.

Backing off 6 and certainly 12 inches from a dynamic means a pretty weak signal needing a lot of gain from a really low noise pre amp. May we know what you use? Then again, maybe you are very loud!

Re Karen Carpenter Rob. I never heard her live but I would say she was one of those very rare singers who had a very beautiful voice but with what seemed to me effortless but great power. So sad, I doubt we shall hear her like again.

Dave.
I will ever so seldomly get some of the pop, but definitely have worried about the spitting factor before... So the gags sound like a good idea.
Not sure if this answers your question, but for practicing singing (which is what the question was asking about) I plug the mic into a Yamaha Stagepas 600i mixer (and the input is technically a preamp right?).
 
I will ever so seldomly get some of the pop, but definitely have worried about the spitting factor before... So the gags sound like a good idea.
Not sure if this answers your question, but for practicing singing (which is what the question was asking about) I plug the mic into a Yamaha Stagepas 600i mixer (and the input is technically a preamp right?).
Ah! Forgive me, brain was engaged for RECORDING and so I was interested in the interface you might be using. The Yamaha is interesting, my son in France plays bass for jazz trio (drums & guitar) and they are buying the lower power version of the stage pas.

Dave.
 
When I sang live, it was usually into an SM58 or similar. I'd sing loud. I'd start right up on the mic (lips touching) in a softer voice, then when I got warmed up I would go way louder, backing away and moving in as I fluctuated. Here at my apartment, I use an AT2020 XLR and sing right on the mic or just a couple inches away in a much lower volume.
 
When using dynamics, (Senn e935 or e835) I'll usually be about an inch or two away. Close gives the nice beefy sound, and being close means you can use less gain and minimize bleed somewhat in a live situation. 50 years ago, I would be "lips touching mic" close. We were using old high Imp Shure Unidyne B 515 mics into Kustom PA heads.

When recording with my LDCs, I'm at least 6-8 inches away. 90% of the time, I'm recording without any instruments, so bleed isn't an issue. I also use a pop shield.
 
Last edited:
I'm going to push back on the "distance to minimize plosives" idea. Actual sound radiating from the mouth drops off according to an inverse square relationship. When you double the distance, you quarter the volume (which is to say, you reduce it by 6 dB). If lips on the grill is 1/2 inch from the diaphragm, 8 inches is 24 dB down. The blast of air that causes the booming sound on a mic is an entirely different kind of phenomenon. It's a jet. The speed of the air doesn't change all that much for several inches (about 8) until turbulence starts to eat away at it, then it falls off at an increasing rate. Given those two facts (plus the protection offered by a "ball" mic's grill and foam windscreen), the optimum distance to minimize plosives is as close as possible, with the added benefit that any eq applied to reduce proximity effect also reduces much of the plosive effect.

I recently did a video using my Zoom H5 to capture the audio. I placed it at the front/center of stage so the onboard mic would capture drums and amps. It was about six feet out from the kick drum and the air puffing out of the drum's hole was hitting the mics and making that "blowing into the mic" sound, which just goes to show how different a jet of air is from radiating sound.

A lot of plosive problems are more a matter of singer technique than anything technical. Some people just blow a lot of air with their consonants. I find this to be especially true of singers used to performing without amplification, like in musicals.

[Edit] All that said, you still need some kind of physical blast protection, like a pop screen, for a studio condenser or (especially) a ribbon mic.
 
I'm going to push back on the "distance to minimize plosives" idea. Actual sound radiating from the mouth drops off according to an inverse square relationship. When you double the distance, you quarter the volume (which is to say, you reduce it by 6 dB). If lips on the grill is 1/2 inch from the diaphragm, 8 inches is 24 dB down. The blast of air that causes the booming sound on a mic is an entirely different kind of phenomenon. It's a jet. The speed of the air doesn't change all that much for several inches (about 8) until turbulence starts to eat away at it, then it falls off at an increasing rate. Given those two facts (plus the protection offered by a "ball" mic's grill and foam windscreen), the optimum distance to minimize plosives is as close as possible, with the added benefit that any eq applied to reduce proximity effect also reduces much of the plosive effect.

I recently did a video using my Zoom H5 to capture the audio. I placed it at the front/center of stage so the onboard mic would capture drums and amps. It was about six feet out from the kick drum and the air puffing out of the drum's hole was hitting the mics and making that "blowing into the mic" sound, which just goes to show how different a jet of air is from radiating sound.

A lot of plosive problems are more a matter of singer technique than anything technical. Some people just blow a lot of air with their consonants. I find this to be especially true of singers used to performing without amplification, like in musicals.

[Edit] All that said, you still need some kind of physical blast protection, like a pop screen, for a studio condenser or (especially) a ribbon mic.
Not sure I agree with your interpretation of the physics of plosives BSG but I accept you have vastly more experience than I. What we DO agree on and what I wrote was that the 'instrument' mic will be worse for 'blasting' than one designed for close vocal work. And of course, spit is spit in all cases!

Dave.
 
There is at least one advantage to distance regarding popping, there's a better chance the blast will simply miss the mic. If you can contrive to do that deliberately, problem solved.

At some distance the blast will dissipate, but that means turning up the gain quite a bit. Then you're dealing with room reflections and intrusive noises.
 
Back in the 70s, Brit band Status Quo sang live into Shure SM57s with the clip up high and the mics pointing steeply down. A kind of image thing they had. Oddly, pops and blasts were not a problem, perhaps because of the high volume levels? When they played on top of the pops on the BBC, policy at the time was everybody mimed. There are some videos showing them ‘singing’ into an AKG C451/CK1 the most poppable blast hating mic in the world! If people see this, they could get totally the wrong idea of that mic, buy one and hate it.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0210.jpeg
    IMG_0210.jpeg
    73.8 KB · Views: 2
  • IMG_0209.jpeg
    IMG_0209.jpeg
    539.3 KB · Views: 2
Back
Top