Recommended vocal effects and mixing principles?

[Chelonian]

I posted a thread a bit back about my vocals not sounding quite as I want and got a lot of great feedback about my boxy room and possible treatments, better headphones, mic technique--even singing tips and general encouragement. All very helpful!

Now I've been fooling around with songs recorded and manipulated with Audacity. My first priority is to sing as well as I can, so I am going to try quite hard with that as well as get a good acoustic environment or at least a better one. But I believe the vocal effects are critical to getting a pro sound. But I'm finding I am really a babe in the woods regarding what I'm doing and what makes things sound better. I'm basically just trial-and-error-ing it, throwing some reverb on or some delay or EQ, or "classic filter" and just hoping something or some recipe works.

But this is inefficient and it both wears down my patience, concentration, and my "ear's judgment," so to speak. I am sure the whole enterprise would go better if I knew what I was doing--or at least knew more.

So, some specific questions:

1. Are the effects provided with Audacity (I'm also using the MeldaProduction realtime effects that I downloaded into Audacity) good enough? My next DAW will be Reaper but so far I got stumped at how to even get sound into it and just need to hunker down and figure it out.

2. Are there any "can't live without" digital effects [software, not hardware] most singers should use? I don't want to fully "cheat" with effects. I don't want AutoTune or anything like that, just digital versions of what singers in studios had in the 1960s through early 1990s. For example, I'm already finding that volume variations (with some parts suddenly too loud) are creating some ugliness in my vocals. Some of that is my moving relative to the mic, some is my voice being too uncontrolled, but I would think some of that could be helped out by a digital process that can even that out somewhat. But I am not sure what that is or how to do it. The "Loudness normalization" in Audacity doesn't seem to help much there.

3. Is there some guide or video you could recommend that walks one through putting effects on vocals judiciously?

4. Anything else I should be thinking about?

Thanks again!

 

[rob aylestone]

A couple of reverbs and a compressor will tackle 90% of the job - the compressor can cope with the volume, but you need to consider two things. The available options from a really good singer are work the microphone at a constant distance, or work the mic by varying distance because of what it does to your voice. I've worked with all sorts who can do this. Older ones do it automatically because they were better at it often than compressors worked by engineers were. Equally some people learnt to sing mimicking Maria carey who waves mics around crazily, but very controlled. imitating this for a less able singer is disaster.

With the available dynamic range you can easily recover level.

Effects wise - I doubt there are any truly bad reverbs now, even free ones - a longer one and a shorter one are useful, and if you can alter the arrival time of the first reflection, you have lots of scope. Other than that, you probably would not need effects other than reverb unless there was a special purpose.

The word judiciously is a perfect one, and just apply it based on your own ears. Videos rarely work well, because for beginners the reverb has to be obvious, like compression. If beginners can hear it, it is too much. Forget the notion of automating anything until you discover you need it to change during the track. Reverb gets added normally till it sounds right, then left. Often, in the rough mix, you will revisit that send and turn it down (or even up) as required. reverb is like adding salt to food - you add a bit at a time till just right.

Your up and down voice could be levelled by a compressor, but just move the fader during the playback and automate it. I do this all the time - your finger does it better than the electronics.

 

[Mickster]

If you get to understanding and using Reaper you'll have all the effects you'll need. It's an excellent full featured DAW.

Mick

 

[markmann]

If you lay down a good vocal you shouldn't need and kind of magic to make it sound pro. A pro singer will sound great with nothing added. Of course you need to add some sort of time based effect like reverb or delay in order to make it fit the mix and compression will help to some degree to even out the dynamics but you shouldn't need much of any of it unless you are actually wanting a special effect for some reason. Working the mic is a good idea because putting too much on the compressor can have a negative effect on the sound (as in too squashed). That said there are other things you can do to help: Find a mic that compliments your voice. Record with only one side of the headphones on your ear to help stay on tune. If you need autotune use it. Autotune can save an otherwise great vocal take by correcting a few bad spots and you won't even know it's being used if done well. Reaper has a built in correction plugin (I think it's called retune). You can also double your voice to make it sound thicker (really pro singers are great at this). A good arrangement is also important to give space for the vocal.

 

[grimtraveller]

I'm finding I am really a babe in the woods regarding what I'm doing and what makes things sound better. I'm basically just trial-and-error-ing it, throwing some reverb on or some delay or EQ, or "classic filter" and just hoping something or some recipe works

I trialled-and-errored it for a long time. I didn't have a clue what I was doing for a long time. I read about reverb but I didn't have a reverb unit so I would put the bass drum of a drumkit between myself and the mic and use that ! I'd never do that now !! But that pushed me {not least because it was painful} to buy a reverb unit and of course, I overdid it. Because I could barely hear the effect and I thought I had to hear the effect, so I had it up and slathered my early vocals in reverb. Which then led to problems come mixing time because everything sounded like it had been recorded in various caverns along the eastern sea coast and it gave new meaning to the word "mush."
And for years I kept reading about compression. 8 years into recording, I finally bought a compressor. Again, I couldn't hear the difference it made to my voice so I monkeyed about with settings that I didn't understand and still could hear no difference. But once a mix was done, I couldn't figure out why some words were chopped off or the S disappeared, even though I knew the vocalist had extended the word at that point !
My point really, is that all of this is part of a learning curve that I had to get to. No one hears like me, and I don't hear like anyone else. But now, 22 years on, I virtually never use compression on vocals. I'd rather ride the fader in a mix. And I rarely hear reverb on any vocals unless I'm isolating the vocal track. I needed to reach the point where I became the judge of what I liked.
It is important that you read up on, and listen to whatever you can regarding how to get good vocals. But use that information as a guide, not a rule.

But this is inefficient and it both wears down my patience, concentration, and my "ear's judgment," so to speak

Your ear's judgement is unique among all the humans in this world. Think about that seriously.

I am sure the whole enterprise would go better if I knew what I was doing--or at least knew more

As someone that likes to find out the different ways in which many different people have done what they do/are doing now in recording, I long ago left behind the notion that there is only one way of doing anything when it comes to recording.
When we first get into recording, regardless of our age, it's a bit like having to be back at school. And trust me, you will start to know what you are doing. It'll take a while and many roads lead to the Rome of being happy with your recordings, but you will get there.

Are the effects provided with Audacity (I'm also using the MeldaProduction realtime effects that I downloaded into Audacity) good enough?

Yes.
This of course, is dependent on how you use them.

Are there any "can't live without" digital effects [software, not hardware] most singers should use?

I was going to say "reverb" but thinking about it, delay can be just as good. In fact, most effects can, although that comes with experience.
Could I live without reverb ? Well, yes. But why should I ? It's there. I'll use it.
One that I would add, that doesn't get much usage these days is double-tracking at different speeds.

I don't want to fully "cheat" with effects. I don't want AutoTune or anything like that, just digital versions of what singers in studios had in the 1960s through early 1990s

The internet is wonderful that way. I agree with Rob, it's unusual to find a really bad reverb, although personal tastes prevail.
Personally, I hate the idea of auto-tune although even I can see where it could be worth its weight in gold.
I have to say though, the notion of 'cheating' really died back in the 1940s when Lester Polfus {Les Paul} worked out how to multitrack his guitars and Mary Ford's voice using sound on sound. Recording since then has been cheating. It's cheating of a noble kind, designed to bring people pleasure. It's a kind of snobbery of the classical world {and not only classical} to cast technology usage to do things that one can't always do naturally, as cheating.

I'm already finding that volume variations (with some parts suddenly too loud) are creating some ugliness in my vocals

I know what you mean. Ride that fader, baby !
But also look at compression.

Some of that is my moving relative to the mic, some is my voice being too uncontrolled, but I would think some of that could be helped out by a digital process that can even that out somewhat

It could be, but I think you might find that learning to control your voice and working that mic may net you a better result. As the years have gone by, I've found myself naturally working the mic. It becomes part of actual recording.

Is there some guide or video you could recommend that walks one through putting effects on vocals judiciously?

There are loads out there. "Produce like a pro" is often an interesting watch....but I find that with my telly, I can't hear the difference that is being made in many of the things shown.
At the risk of appearing repetitive, only your ears are going to be able to work out if what you are hearing is au fait. That doesn't help much, I know, but that's partly going to be the case when we're communicating by words, rather than actually being face-to-face.

 

[rob aylestone]

I watched aYoutube video yesterday - it was really slagging off the music chord packs that are always being plugged - the word 'pro' seemingly meaning 4 notes in a chord.!!

 

[Chelonian]

A couple of reverbs and a compressor will tackle 90% of the job - the compressor can cope with the volume, but you need to consider two things. The available options from a really good singer are work the microphone at a constant distance, or work the mic by varying distance because of what it does to your voice. I've worked with all sorts who can do this. Older ones do it automatically because they were better at it often than compressors worked by engineers were. Equally some people learnt to sing mimicking Maria carey who waves mics around crazily, but very controlled. imitating this for a less able singer is disaster.

With the available dynamic range you can easily recover level.

Effects wise - I doubt there are any truly bad reverbs now, even free ones - a longer one and a shorter one are useful, and if you can alter the arrival time of the first reflection, you have lots of scope. Other than that, you probably would not need effects other than reverb unless there was a special purpose.

The word judiciously is a perfect one, and just apply it based on your own ears. Videos rarely work well, because for beginners the reverb has to be obvious, like compression. If beginners can hear it, it is too much. Forget the notion of automating anything until you discover you need it to change during the track. Reverb gets added normally till it sounds right, then left. Often, in the rough mix, you will revisit that send and turn it down (or even up) as required. reverb is like adding salt to food - you add a bit at a time till just right.

Fair enough! Thanks for your thoughts.

Your up and down voice could be levelled by a compressor, but just move the fader during the playback and automate it. I do this all the time - your finger does it better than the electronics.

I'll have to figure out how to do this in a DAW, as I won't have a physical fader.

 

[Chelonian]

If you lay down a good vocal you shouldn't need and kind of magic to make it sound pro. A pro singer will sound great with nothing added. Of course you need to add some sort of time based effect like reverb or delay in order to make it fit the mix and compression will help to some degree to even out the dynamics but you shouldn't need much of any of it unless you are actually wanting a special effect for some reason. Working the mic is a good idea because putting too much on the compressor can have a negative effect on the sound (as in too squashed). That said there are other things you can do to help: Find a mic that compliments your voice. Record with only one side of the headphones on your ear to help stay on tune. If you need autotune use it. Autotune can save an otherwise great vocal take by correcting a few bad spots and you won't even know it's being used if done well. Reaper has a built in correction plugin (I think it's called retune). You can also double your voice to make it sound thicker (really pro singers are great at this). A good arrangement is also important to give space for the vocal.

These are all good tips, thank you. I was actually going to ask about whether I should the one headphones only thing and there's a vote that I should.

 

[Chelonian]

I trialled-and-errored it for a long time. I didn't have a clue what I was doing for a long time. I read about reverb but I didn't have a reverb unit so I would put the bass drum of a drumkit between myself and the mic and use that ! I'd never do that now !! But that pushed me {not least because it was painful} to buy a reverb unit and of course, I overdid it. Because I could barely hear the effect and I thought I had to hear the effect, so I had it up and slathered my early vocals in reverb. Which then led to problems come mixing time because everything sounded like it had been recorded in various caverns along the eastern sea coast and it gave new meaning to the word "mush."
And for years I kept reading about compression. 8 years into recording, I finally bought a compressor. Again, I couldn't hear the difference it made to my voice so I monkeyed about with settings that I didn't understand and still could hear no difference. But once a mix was done, I couldn't figure out why some words were chopped off or the S disappeared, even though I knew the vocalist had extended the word at that point !
My point really, is that all of this is part of a learning curve that I had to get to. No one hears like me, and I don't hear like anyone else. But now, 22 years on, I virtually never use compression on vocals. I'd rather ride the fader in a mix. And I rarely hear reverb on any vocals unless I'm isolating the vocal track. I needed to reach the point where I became the judge of what I liked.
It is important that you read up on, and listen to whatever you can regarding how to get good vocals. But use that information as a guide, not a rule.

Your ear's judgement is unique among all the humans in this world. Think about that seriously.

As someone that likes to find out the different ways in which many different people have done what they do/are doing now in recording, I long ago left behind the notion that there is only one way of doing anything when it comes to recording.
When we first get into recording, regardless of our age, it's a bit like having to be back at school. And trust me, you will start to know what you are doing. It'll take a while and many roads lead to the Rome of being happy with your recordings, but you will get there.

Yes.
This of course, is dependent on how you use them.

I was going to say "reverb" but thinking about it, delay can be just as good. In fact, most effects can, although that comes with experience.
Could I live without reverb ? Well, yes. But why should I ? It's there. I'll use it.
One that I would add, that doesn't get much usage these days is double-tracking at different speeds.

The internet is wonderful that way. I agree with Rob, it's unusual to find a really bad reverb, although personal tastes prevail.
Personally, I hate the idea of auto-tune although even I can see where it could be worth its weight in gold.
I have to say though, the notion of 'cheating' really died back in the 1940s when Lester Polfus {Les Paul} worked out how to multitrack his guitars and Mary Ford's voice using sound on sound. Recording since then has been cheating. It's cheating of a noble kind, designed to bring people pleasure. It's a kind of snobbery of the classical world {and not only classical} to cast technology usage to do things that one can't always do naturally, as cheating.

I know what you mean. Ride that fader, baby !
But also look at compression.

It could be, but I think you might find that learning to control your voice and working that mic may net you a better result. As the years have gone by, I've found myself naturally working the mic. It becomes part of actual recording.

There are loads out there. "Produce like a pro" is often an interesting watch....but I find that with my telly, I can't hear the difference that is being made in many of the things shown.
At the risk of appearing repetitive, only your ears are going to be able to work out if what you are hearing is au fait. That doesn't help much, I know, but that's partly going to be the case when we're communicating by words, rather than actually being face-to-face.

Thanks for all these thoughts and the general spirit of it! Really helpful!

 

[rob aylestone]

Grim mentioned his experience with a compressor, and it aligns with my own and countless students - when you connect your first compressor - real or a plugin, you are used to level knobs making volume go up and down, you're even used to detecting distortion, and you're good at hearing even small EQ adjustments. Compressors just don't do that. Once you suddenly hear what they are doing, it's so damn obvious - but I've never been able to express it in words. Maybe it's because in real life, it doesn't happen? Instruments and voices don't do compression - although I think what some auctioneers do is a sort of compression - cut out all quiet bits and pronounce words so every syllable is loud?

I think we all have do do the trial and error thing on compression till we get the hang of it. Too many people then set their own rules. Bass guitars need 3:1 with X attack and decay, because that sounded good 20 years ago when you had your own Eureka moment and have done it the same ever since. I'm guilty of that - settting it BEFORE I listen, and I bet I was wrong most times.

Mark mentioned tuning - that's good advice too. The one ear on/one ear off approach is good for many people - especially singers but also people who need to tune their instruments - strings, fretless bass, trombones, pedal steel players. Both ears on often mangles their accuracy. Especially string players - because they constantly deliberately play slightly out of tune to their neighbour. They need their sound and the ones next door to play properly. It's why you can't put string players in the little plexiglass screens that you put the trumpets in to get isolation. They play terribly if you do!

Last tip - there are some great youtube videos - but you need to get good at assessing what they say, and working out if their comments apply to you. So many are 100% opposite in advice. For them it's how they do it, so often not wrong, but it may not travel well. Find stuff and think about it - nick bits you can try. keep/discard to taste.

 

[wavestar]

There were a lot of great ideas mentioned here.
A few things I might add

• For volume, assuming your software has it, I think you would have the most control of your levels with volume-automation, not the fader.
• Also, take advantage of punching in and out on the parts you don't like, or comp cycles takes
• Compressors are great, but I would use them to slightly control the low and high points, meaning don't over do it, unless it produces a sound you like. Compressors will multiply your mistakes.
• I think the quality of your reverb is HUGE. don't be afraid to spend some money on that. Logic Pro has some great reverbs, but when I plug in my multi effects T.C M1 rack, it's night and day. The verbs are so much more natural - A reverb should never sound processed, but natural, unless that's what you're after.
• EQing is a subject I have limited experience in, but I know that it is key to placing your vocals and other instruments in a mix where their fundamental frequency's don't overlap too much and cause a muddy sound from phase cancellation. For example, if the vocals are the mid range of the song, then thin out the guitars with EQ. Just as if the bass guitar and kick drum handles the low end and warmth of the song, then thin out something else that plays at the same time. Finding where instruments site in a mix is one of the most challenging things for me. Overlapping frequency's can cancel each other out. Finding what frequency space your vocals occupy is key so that something else in the mix is not canceling it out. Easer said then done.
• Last, nothing beats a good singer who sings from their gut with balance in the voice levels and hits the notes right on.

 

[rob aylestone]

Good stuff. For me with reverbs, it’s about access to too many. I’m not really certain ‘quality’ makes much sense though when it’s so easy to have an excellent quality one that is just not nice sounding. I got those abbey road ones and have never used them on anything simply because the type of reverb is a sort of snapshot in time and was the 60s/70s attempt to create reverb from non-electronics. If you hated spring reverbs the abbey road rooms were a better solution but I remember my first digital reverb. A Yamaha DSP-1 sampled reverbs from real places. Many presets I didn’t like but one, Munich Cathedral was the one! It did not have any controls and I lost the reverb but I have it somewhere stuck on that setting. With so many in even the simple daws we all, I’m certain, still use just our favourites. I’ve been using till recently in the office cubase elements and it does most things but does not have Steinberg’s reverence. I think I use that more than anything in the reverb folder and it’s bundled with Cubase pro! If I was producing a 60s song the abbey road reverbs might be more realistic if the period I suppose. Are there any actually bad reverbs now? I wonder if the ones we don’t use are just wrong, not bad?

 

[Steenamaroo]

Hi,
I'd caution against looking for digital solutions to analog problems.
If your room sounds boxy then that's something you'd want to address before trying to polish (or even record) anything.
You don't necessarily need an expensive professionally treated setup - Often a few small changes can give big results.

For example, having the microphone face a loaded book case or open clothes closet will probably sound a lot better than having it face a bare wall.
In an undesirable sounding room being 2 inches from the mic is going to sound a lot better than 4, or 6 inches.

You might not be able to fix the room, but you can reduce how much you're capturing its sound, relative to the direct sound of your voice.

I'd recommend against reaching for a compressor to deal with volume/level issues.
You can, but you can also hammer in a screw...if you try hard enough.
Compression has a sound and using it to level out an overly dynamic performance isn't going to sound the same as turning the fader down (automating volume) after recording which, in turn, isn't going to sound the same as leaning back from the mic slightly when you're going to sing very loud.

Easy to say and hard to do but if you make a recording and feel like it needs manipulation to make it sound less bad, I'd go back a step and work on how, and where, you're recording.

You asked about effects - Eq, reverb, and delays are very commonly used on vocals.
Subtlety is often key, though. If there are no major issues with the recording, adding some sweetening effects afterwards shouldn't feel like a big or difficult job.
Hope that helps.

 

[grimtraveller]

A good arrangement is also important to give space for the vocal.

^^^^^^^^^^Fewer truer words will you hear this year.

 

[grimtraveller]

Subtlety is often key, though. If there are no major issues with the recording, adding some sweetening effects afterwards shouldn't feel like a big or difficult job.

Well, except maybe these words !

 

[wavestar]

I'd caution against looking for digital solutions to analog problems.

I've always wondered what this thing sounds like
The two AD/DA converters in this thing are supose to produce the same secondary distortion hormontics that you get from old saturated analog tapes. For the price tag, it better.