should i buy pro tools?

[HabitualG]

i have been reading up on this digidesign mbox and want to know if i should sell my zoom mrs1044 for it. i have a very nice 8 month old laptop (athlon 1600) with win xp- will that work? is this a good idea? should i ditch a machine i am finally getting good with for pro tools which id have to learn from scratch? is pro tools more powerful? my head is spinning. any opinions would be fabulous.

 

[HabitualG]

forgot something

forgot:

how would i hook pro tools up to my monitors for mixing? through the mbox or my laptop? i am confused.

 

[mgraffeo]

HabitualG,

I don't have experience with ProTools, or the Mbox, but I did make the switch from an all-in-one unit to PC-based recording (using SONAR), and have NEVER regretted it. I'm definitely a strong advocate of the flexibility afforded by recording in the computer.

I'll leave others to discuss the technical merits of ProTools and the Mbox.

BTW, where in NJ are you? I'm in Springfield. If you're interested in learning more, or sharing experiences, let me know.

-mg

 

[DonF]

Re: forgot something

how would i hook pro tools up to my monitors for mixing? through the mbox or my laptop? i am confused.

ProTools (except for ProTools FREE) doesn't want anything to do with your laptop's sound card. It only works with ProTools hardware (MBox, Digi001, Digi002). So, you'd connect your monitors to the MBox.

DonF

 

[demensia]

Is pro tools something you really need? There are alot of more affordable easier to use tools such as Sonar, Cool Edit, N-Track, Cubase, Vegas, the list goes on and on but I'm retarded right now.

What I'm trying to say is .. dont spend the money just because its Pro-Tools.

 

[JFogarty]

well, one of the best parts of pro tools is how easy it is to learn. Its a really simple, so if you're not good with computer/ recording computer stuff, its not a steep learning curve

 

[darnold]

protools easy to learn? true...but so is sonar, and sonar might even be a little more powefull than the lesser protools system.

and ntracks? i hear thats the easiest of any program to learn, and its amazingly low price.

yah, dont just buy it because its protools. test a couple of demos out and find out which one you feel most comfortable with.

danny

 

[therage!]

Originally posted by darnold
protools easy to learn? true...but so is sonar, and sonar might even be a little more powefull than the lesser protools system.

In the wy I work that's most certainly true in regards to the number of tracks you get. I cannot believe the track limitations of Pro Tools LE. LE's 24 tracks right? I like Sonar, not too hard to use and I have unlimited tracks. Before I'm done tracking I tend to use up a lot of tracks that later I clean up but it's nice to know I can go beyond 24 or 32 tracks when I need to.

 

[Track Rat]

If ease of use and compatibility is what's important to you, something like Vegas would fit the bill. It'll play nice with damn near any sound card and it's VERY easy to learn and use.

 

[Light]

I, for one, would advocate staying with what you know. Unless you feel that you are being held back by your gear, don't change. And I mean your gear, not your own skills. You will get more from spending time in your studio than buying new gear.

Oh, and by the way, pro tools sounds like ASS. There are other software packages which sound much better, while being cheaper.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Hard2Hear]

First off. Is anyone thinks Pro Tools "sounds" bad..you have no clue what you're talking about. If you are tracking on 2" NICE machines then you *may* say this, but otherwise..um, no. I can give you a list a mile long (and so can Digidesign) of great sounding albums done with Pro Tools. Most people who say such things have never even been in a real studio. Feel free to post your songs you want to compare, and I'll send you links to Pro Tools projects I have worked on and you can judge for yourself. It sounds great in the right hands.

Second. There are some REAL advantages to using Pro Tools, even with MBox. If you plan on never moving up and are only doing music for fun and in your bedroom for the rest of your life, then you probably can find a better solution. If you ever plan on being in a real studio, or having someone else mix your music. or collaboration with professionals...Pro Tools makes life good. Not only could you pull your home project up in a studio using HD, OR have a PT engineer mix tracks in a better environment than you can afford, you will also learn the industry standard program, and be able to use it in any PT studio anywhere.

Third. I find MBox a good value solution for most users. You not only get a good quality 2 in 2 out card, with pres built in, you get a real Software package to work with. You can upgrade PT LE to 32 tracks if you feel you need it. For around $450 you get all this, most decent software will cost $400(Vegas) to $1200(nuendo) alone, then you have to buy hardware on top of that. AND The PT setups are ALWAYS compatable...thats the nice thing about the soundcard and software being designed for each other...no setup prolems between the two.

I have used PT for a couple years now in various studios. Mind you, I am primarily an artist and I have engineers who work for me, but I always get my hands dirty on my projects. I have used everything from the top of the line HD system with an Apogee front end to a Titanium laptop with an MBox. It's a very good system, and well supported because it is used so much in the industry.

For your compatibility questions, you should check out the forum at the digidesign website. You can find help there.

H2H

 

[Hard2Hear]

"
quote:
Originally posted by darnold
protools easy to learn? true...but so is sonar, and sonar might even be a little more powefull than the lesser protools system.

In the wy I work that's most certainly true in regards to the number of tracks you get. I cannot believe the track limitations of Pro Tools LE. LE's 24 tracks right? I like Sonar, not too hard to use and I have unlimited tracks. Before I'm done tracking I tend to use up a lot of tracks that later I clean up but it's nice to know I can go beyond 24 or 32 tracks when I need to.

One thing cool about the Pro Tools software is that you have multiple takes on one track, that is, if I want to do a vocal comp, I can record it 6 times and only take up one track. Things like that are what non Pro Tools users don't know.

PS, Sonar is my favorite program for PC for MIDI sequencing. I use it every day in my home setup.

H2H

 

[fprod south]

One thing cool about the Pro Tools software is that you have multiple takes on one track, that is, if I want to do a vocal comp, I can record it 6 times and only take up one track. Things like that are what non Pro Tools users don't know.

H2H

I didn't know that you couldn't do that on other software

 

[sonusman]

I once took 8 recorded tracks, imported them into a PT LE session, a Neundo session, and a Sonar session. Didn't do any fader adjustments or anything.

The Nuendo and Sonar mixes sounded INDENTICAL and clipped the master buss like it should have.

The ProTools mix was about 8dB quieter than the Nuendo and Sonar mixes and DIDN'T clip the master buss like it should have!

There was also tonal differences between the Nuendo/Sonar and ProTools mixes with NOTHING done to them.

Don't tell me that ProTools doesn't fuck with the sound. It most certainly does!

Soon, unless digidesign pulls their collective heads out of their asses, PT will be a small player in the market. Too many other platforms are offering a better sound, more intuitive interfaces, and stronger features for full music production.

I too didn't know that you couldn't just keep "comping" takes on the same track in Sonar! Probably because I do it all the time! Come now Hard2Hear, tells us SOMETHING that PT LE offers that you can't find on any number of other app's?

Ed (the guy who has I guess never worked on a PT session before....)

 

[sonusman]

And now back to the question.

I agree, don't buy PT just because it is PT. We have the opportunity to use LE in the studio and DON'T because Sonar is offering us a much more user friendly environment to work on. In addition, RTAS plugin's tend to cost a lot more than DirectX and VST, and I have never seen so many damn problems with a software package working on a PC as I did trying to install PT LE!

Most software is going to offer, or already does, OMF exporting of the session files. If you NEED to take your session to a PT rig, you can using OMF.

Shop around. I have heard better sounding soundcards than the cheaper digidesign cards, and have seen easier to use software with better features. PT is NOT "all that". I cannot count a single instance where a production I did in Sonar would have sounded "better" of been "easier" to do with PT LE!

Ed

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

Interesting discussion.

I've worked with n-track, Cubasis, Cubase VST 5.0, Cubase VST/32, Cubase SX, and Pro Tools LE 5.3.2.

My experience is that once you get beyond the starter programs, they all work about the same. One isn't any easier or harder than the other once you get used to the working environment.

Pro Tools LE, by the way, is 32 tracks now. The version that ships with the Mbox is also designed to work with XP and installs easily. Digi used to have a lot of problems with PC, but not so with the Digi 002 and the Mbox.

Mbox is a pretty good value concidering you get the software and the hardware for $500. It doesn't offer any expandability, though, short of buying new hardware...

I trust that Ed has much better ears than I do, but I've never heard much of a difference that I couldn't live with between all the different programs I've used.

All that said, PT LE is no better than any of the other programs out there. If you can find an interface and software combo for the same price or less that works well for you, I'd go for that instead of the limited upgrade path that mbox offers.

And that comes from a PT user. (shrug). Its a good solution for my situation, but not necessarily everyone's.

Take care,
Chris

 

[MiXit-G]

Habit-G, you have to ask yourself why do i want to change my setup? dont you like the sound? not getting the results you expect?

Before jumping into PC recording by selling your zoom, get your hands on a program like cubase, PT free or n-tracks and see if you like it

Maybee start by bouncing tracks down to PC ( have you got the optional scsi/usb card?)

I dont know how the digidesign mic pres sound but they could'nt be any better than a soundcraft or mackie.

An option would be to get a mixer and record to a soundcard of your choice.

O the options are endless... what are you recording a band or yourself? how many tracks do you need simultaneous??

I hope this helps

 

[Light]

First off. Is anyone thinks Pro Tools "sounds" bad..you have no clue what you're talking about. If you are tracking on 2" NICE machines then you *may* say this, but otherwise..um, no. I can give you a list a mile long (and so can Digidesign) of great sounding albums done with Pro Tools. Most people who say such things have never even been in a real studio. Feel free to post your songs you want to compare, and I'll send you links to Pro Tools projects I have worked on and you can judge for yourself. It sounds great in the right hands.

If you really want to hear the opinions of some people who have spent time in a whole lot of "real" studios, go and post this on Rec Pit. There are guys on that forum who (colectively) have more gold and platnuim albums to there name than you have CDs.

I have spent thousands of hours in "real"studios, and I have used 2", DASH, Radar, Protools, Logic Audio (a long time ago, on a second generation Power Mac), Neudeo, and Sonar. 2" at 30 ips sounded best, which is no real surprise, followed by Radar, DASH, and then the rest, with Protools down near the bottom. My favorite thing with DASH, by the way, was the ability to use my skills with a razor for editing. It has been a shame to let those skills go to waste in recent years.

The problem with Protools has always been (and I am given to understand, though I am a couple of years out of date, still is) the mix buss algorythims, among other things. They just don't mix things as cleanly as other programs. (If you go to the Mercenary website you will find a number of prducts which are nothing more than unity gain analog mix buses, for just this reason.)

My other big problem with Protools is their overly propiatary, over priced, and (frankly) not very good hardware. I do not want to have to use thier hardware in order to use their software. With other (better sounding, and easier to use) software, I can use whatever hardware I want. Much preferable to me.

Second. There are some REAL advantages to using Pro Tools, even with MBox. If you plan on never moving up and are only doing music for fun and in your bedroom for the rest of your life, then you probably can find a better solution. If you ever plan on being in a real studio, or having someone else mix your music. or collaboration with professionals...Pro Tools makes life good. Not only could you pull your home project up in a studio using HD, OR have a PT engineer mix tracks in a better environment than you can afford, you will also learn the industry standard program, and be able to use it in any PT studio anywhere.[/B]

Sonusman covered this preaty well.

Third. I find MBox a good value solution for most users. You not only get a good quality 2 in 2 out card, with pres built in, you get a real Software package to work with. You can upgrade PT LE to 32 tracks if you feel you need it. For around $450 you get all this, most decent software will cost $400(Vegas) to $1200(nuendo) alone, then you have to buy hardware on top of that. AND The PT setups are ALWAYS compatable...thats the nice thing about the soundcard and software being designed for each other...no setup prolems between the two.
[/B]

The same goes for moving between versions of ANY DAW software.

For your compatibility questions, you should check out the forum at the digidesign website. You can find help there.

H2H [/B]

Just as a coment about the DUC, try saying somthing negative about Protools (like Sonusman or my posts in this thread) over there some time. Your post will be deleted within the hour, and if you say somthing negative about the system again, you will be banned. If their system is so great, and they are so confodent about it, why the need to hush up the negative posts.

One thing cool about the Pro Tools software is that you have multiple takes on one track, that is, if I want to do a vocal comp, I can record it 6 times and only take up one track. Things like that are what non Pro Tools users don't know.[/B]

The first time I heard about this (I was really just an analog guy at the time) was on the Roland 880.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[pipelineaudio]

"One thing cool about the Pro Tools software is that you have multiple takes on one track, that is, if I want to do a vocal comp, I can record it 6 times and only take up one track. Things like that are what non Pro Tools users don't know"

see if you can name a single multitrack app that DOESNT do this.

In fact I would bet that PT wasnt the first to do it

edit LOL! thats what I get for not finishing one of light's posts

glad he found one first

 

[Light]

edit LOL! thats what I get for not finishing one of light's posts

glad he found one first

There not ALL that long!!!!!!


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi