should i buy pro tools?

  • Thread starter Thread starter HabitualG
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pipelineaudio said:
"Blink 182 "enema of the state" PT to 2" then to sony digital tape
blink 182 "take of your pants..." PT to sony digital tape
Silverchair "diorama" Protools
"

wow, I've seen protools HATERS before, but never one who hated PT enough to blame the travesty of those albums on PT!
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Lets throw Linkin park in there too!
This is even from my "local" paper....
" The group uses the latest recording technology on its albums. Forget tape: Linkin Park is all about digitized, computer-reliant recording systems like Pro Tools. "

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Apr/04182003/friday/friday.asp
 
Lots of albums have been done in Pro Tools. Lots of albums have been done in Nuendo. Lots of albums have been done on RADAR. The system is NOT what makes the album good or bad, EVER. What matters most is the skill of the musicians, the songwriter, and the engineer. Period. This is why, the first thing I said was to work with the system you have, and not get something else unless you feel your current system is holding you back. Work on learning new skills, and not a new system.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
therage! said:
Lets throw Linkin park in there too!
This is even from my "local" paper....
" The group uses the latest recording technology on its albums. Forget tape: Linkin Park is all about digitized, computer-reliant recording systems like Pro Tools. "

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Apr/04182003/friday/friday.asp
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Yes, it is true Linkin Park used the industry standard digital recording format for both of its recent albums. Even some of the digi midi drums were done in protools on the recent cd and protools is NOT the most midi friendly.
 
i think what you have to realize is that in a "pro" studio, protools is just another tool.

Blink 182 "enema of the state" PT to 2" then to sony digital tape
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Tom Lord-Alge mixed that cd, he does his mixes on a real mxing board with sony digital tape. I wouldnt be suprised if some special pt engineer sat in a room lining up snare drum hits before Lord-Alge ever got there. I would guess everything was tracked to 2" analog tape, then maybe some drums went into protools, but no mixing was done in protools.

Protools is the industry standard digital editing tool, the real mixing is still happening on a mixing board, for the most part.
 
KingstonRock said:
I wouldnt be suprised if some special pt engineer sat in a room lining up snare drum hits before Lord-Alge ever got there.
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um...I would. Travis barker is solid as hell.



One more thing to observe in this thread:
Most anti-PT people are pissed because they can't find a cracked version.
 
fenix said:

One more thing to observe in this thread:
Most anti-PT people are pissed because they can't find a cracked version.
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I NEVER use cracked versions of anything. I have this thing about not breaking the law, you see.

If your so convinced about how good Pro Tools is, why don't you talk about how good it is, not how stupid others are.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Ok so we got Linkin Park and a pair of Blink 182 albums, with some tracks done by one of the shameless fungus brothers.

We got enough against

Anyone FOR pro tools wanna show a decent album done with it?
 
.........Ahhh life's a risk, take a chance! PARIS right now can be had on the cheap. Great math, great bang for the $$$. Discontinued hardware, chipset yada yada yada. More than likely you'll be eyeballing the latest 9000 bit 4 million sample rate 8 gazigawatt P45 1/2 processor in a year or two. Get in, get your hands and ears dirty and spend the $$$ on a pristine front-end.

My Blue's,Neumann's,Coles,MP-2NV,DACS Clarity,Tube Tech are not going any where soon. PARIS,RADAR,PT,SONAR,NEUENDO etc.......... "workhorse source code/resolution bit depth" is variable and subjective...........so is MUSIC!

Go "dollar value"stability, wokability for you.

INVEST: Front End
Also think ADA and Clock!

Good Luck and when all else fails push the verb in the red!!
:p
 
* Pro Tools was used along with other products.

mostly only hip-hop albums were done entirely on pro-tools

and its a long list, but in the first 20, lose yourself is there probably 4 times, with almost all of the others repeated

*edit* not that its an engineering masterpiece or anything, maybe it was before mastering, but im suprised to see that the new red hot chilli peppers was done entirely on protools
 
plexi said:
Well,considering that most people here will not take their stuff to a larger studio, I can`t see why anyone will want to buy a PT Mbox......
Mbox is most definetly not the only answer!

Amund
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I did say it was the "only answer" for me. I said considering what your getting as a homerecordist for $500 dollars is a great deal. If Im not mistaken, where talking "homerecording" type of budgets and associated equipment. Im lucky I guess I haven't been faced with having that decision. I like having knobs..I like 100mm faders...I like to see mechanical things working. Id rather take my $3000 Cannondale out for a beating than to play a video game of a rendering riding one.
Sjoko isn't a homerecordist and has more money invested in equipment and construction than I think most hobbiests can fathom. Its hard for me to realistically suggest to someone looking at all in one recording systems to just skip the entry level and go right to the Neve 80 series with a Studer 827.
Stick to the basics when your starting out or doing it for pleasure.

I think most professional have gone several thousand round on the Alsihad debate, surely Aaron Carey(pipe) knows enough about what he does to land the gigs and Sjoko isn't a slouch, so who is right? Its personal pref and niether side will move because of the subjective nature. Did I ask whether anyone could pick up a cd and tell me what it was recorded on, 2" or Alsihad? I can't tell sometimes, Im sure there are guys who are capable of picking out the differences. None of this really matters until you develop the experience to track to whatever. If you can pick the right mic, pre, comp, mic placement or anyother variable, then crap on 2" is Crap on Alsihad.

If steve Vai puts his Studer's and API on Ebay...I let everyone know!

Have a great day!(Mondays)

SoMm
 
sonusman said:
I once took 8 recorded tracks, imported them into a PT LE session, a Neundo session, and a Sonar session. Didn't do any fader adjustments or anything.

The Nuendo and Sonar mixes sounded INDENTICAL and clipped the master buss like it should have.

The ProTools mix was about 8dB quieter than the Nuendo and Sonar mixes and DIDN'T clip the master buss like it should have!
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Protools does this on purpose. This issue is more or less explained here:
http://digidesign.com/digizine/techtalk/

The idea is that several faders at unity bussed will overload the buss channel. This is not desireable in digital mixers. You would have to adjust the faders to be below unity, again...something not particularly desired in digital mixers. In the 48 bit word clock of the mixing in protools, they have allowed you considerable amount of headroom (that occupy some allotted bits) to compensate.

Sonar and Nuendo do not do this.

"The ProTools mix was about 8dB quieter than the Nuendo and Sonar mixes and DIDN'T clip the master buss like it should have!"
---why the hell would you want it to do this? The industry standard format safeguards against this digital distortion and other artifacts bussing can introduce. Read the article, it explains it better that I can.
 
Light said:
If your so convinced about how good Pro Tools is, why don't you talk about how good it is, not how stupid others are.
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Look at the post above this one buddy. There ARE reasons PT is the industry standard. This is a big one.
 
those kinds of " numbers magic" is one of the reasons I dont enjoy working on PT. Theres a lot of hand holding lately in the semi pro field, where you find lots of plugins with " automatic gain compensation" and the like. This is great for introducing amatuers to the field as they wont have to know EVERYTHING just to push a few faders.

Its a different philosophy, and it works good for some people, but for me, I want to know EXACTLY whats going to happen, and I want to control EXACTLY what happens. If I throw a mix up on a Neve for instance, or even a Behringer, and push too many faders too far, I WILL BE past clipping, some magical force wont come and attenuate all my faders by a certain amount. If you look very carefully at the signal path in any app, you will notice that certain sends are pre and certain sends are post certain faders. With "numbers magic" your effects mix can be changed through no intention of your own!

I think a lot of the " math errors" and unpredictableness of PT might just be the intentional number magic. Ill do my own work thank you very much.

Same thing for all the auto makeup bullshit in so many dx and vst plugs, as long as I can turn it off, then cool, but sometimes you cant.

I still gotta ask, what " industry" is PT the " industry standard" in ? The Mackie/ADAT industry? The volume wars industry? The squash it to death and destroy any sonic quality whatsoever industry ( ala RHCP's Kalifornication) ?
 
fenix said:
Protools does this on purpose. This issue is more or less explained here:
http://digidesign.com/digizine/techtalk/

The idea is that several faders at unity bussed will overload the buss channel. This is not desireable in digital mixers. You would have to adjust the faders to be below unity, again...something not particularly desired in digital mixers. In the 48 bit word clock of the mixing in protools, they have allowed you considerable amount of headroom (that occupy some allotted bits) to compensate.
Click to expand...


The fact that their summing math can not handle even the most basic mixing tasks is not a feature or benefit. I find it most amusing they would try and sell it as one. Then again, we are talking about a company whose one real skill is marketing, so go figure.

Marketing, luck, and an early involvement in a growing industry are the reason Pro Tools is so prevalent these days.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Light said:
The fact that their summing math can not handle even the most basic mixing tasks is not a feature or benefit. I find it most amusing they would try and sell it as one. Then again, we are talking about a company whose one real skill is marketing, so go figure.

Marketing, luck, and an early involvement in a growing industry are the reason Pro Tools is so prevalent these days.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
Click to expand...

you obviously didn't read the article. And yes, their summing can handle the most basic mixing tasks. That's why the busses will not clip!!!!!

Tell me of a commercial song done in nuendo.
 
pipelineaudio said:
The volume wars industry? The squash it to death and destroy any sonic quality whatsoever industry ( ala RHCP's Kalifornication) ?
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Yes, the commercial recording industry. They may be squashed, but you only wish you could squash your stuff and have it come out that good...I do.
 
Bullshit

Im part of that "commercial recording industry". I get pissed when people take my albums and mash them in mastering. I think it makes me look BAD, not good

I see my customers' happy smiles when it is as "loud" as the other crap out there, but I dont think, 5 years from now the recording will hold up. 20 years from now, people will still be buying Iron Maiden albums from the 80's and Black Sabbath albums from the 70's. I dont think that today's stuff will have nearly the shelf life, but I could be wrong.

Seven years ago, we finished Dokken's " Shadow Life" and bunch of George Lynch and Rob Halford stuff. It all went to Oasis at the same time for mastering. I was SCREAMING mad pissed at the "new loud" ( new to me anyhow) process of destroying any of that dynamic range which we were allegedly using as an excuse for making digital recordings. The modern mixes I was hearing from other studios for the 3 or four years prior to that, I had attributed to low budgets, I couldnt believe thats how people WANTED their shit to sound. I was in shock when I heard my work being anihilated. The stuff seriously had a MUCH smaller dynamic range than cassette, and here I was hearing how CD's were " better ".

Here I was complainging, but that album still has about a 12dB dynamic range. That album is QUIET compared to stuff today. I guess it wouldnt hurt me to see it in that perspective
 
fenix said:

Tell me of a commercial song done in nuendo.
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How bout Logic?

Check out the latest issue of Sound on Sound magazines Peter Gabriel article. Yeah they used PT but Logic was also used quite a bit. Of course they also used a Studer. :cool:
 
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