Recording on a College Student Budget

[Coltrain]

So here's the thing. I'm a very poor college student. Music is everything to me and I want to start recording both my music as well as my friends. I've done a little research on the hardware and software that I would like to use considering my low budget. Here's what I've come up with:

E-MU 0404 USB 2.0 Audio Interface
- Comes with software by Cakewalk, Steinberg (cubase 4le), Ableton, IK Multimedia, ect. Has optical and RCA S/PDIF. so on and so forth. I'm assuming that you're all familiar with this interface.

My main question is: Can I use an A/D/A Converter like the Behringer ADA8000 and use the optical S/PDIF out and plug it into the S/PDIF input on the E-MU 0404 to increase the amount of microphone channels and edit the channels separately via a DAW?

Here are links to the items from retailers:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5638414&CatId=4489

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-ADA8000-Ultragain-Pro-8-A-D-A-Converter-102448628-i1125217.gc

Thanks in advanced. I would greatly appreciate some help.

 

[The Cancers]

Short answer, no.

I'm not sure of the specifics, but the optical out on the ADA8000 is ADAT and the optical ins on the e-mu are s/pdif or AES/EBU.
These aren't the same format and some sort of conversion is needed between them.

I'm not 100% sure the above is true, but I'm at about 90%. You might want to wait for more answers, but I wouldn't spend my money on this particular combination yet.

By the time you spend the money on the ADA8000 and an interface with an ADAT in, you've spent what you would have spent on an interface with 8 preamps, something like:
http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--TASUS1641
or if you have an available firewire port and want more future expandability, some thing like:
http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--FOCSAFFPRO40
or if you already have the ADA8000, something like:
http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--FOCSAFPRO24
that has an ADAT input on it.

Not saying you should buy any of those specific products, just giving you examples of ones with the features I think you might be looking for.

S/PDIF and AES/EBU, as far as I know, only transfer two track at a time.

But, as I said, you might wait for some other answers, cause I'm not 100% certain on how S/PDIF and AES/EBU work.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

My main question is: Can I use an A/D/A Converter like the Behringer ADA8000 and use the optical S/PDIF out and plug it into the S/PDIF input on the E-MU 0404 to increase the amount of microphone channels and edit the channels separately via a DAW?

S/PDIF is a 2-channel format. There is no way to get more channels through it without adding more optical or coaxial I/Os. Sometimes an optical connection is designed to handle both S/PDIF and ADAT Lightpipe, which would work with the ADA8000. If that interface has that capability they will surely say so in the description.

 

[guitaristic]

So here's the thing. I'm a very poor college student.

I know exactly what you mean

 

[nate_dennis]

Two Questions:

What is your budget?

What are your goals? (i.e. solo artists? Bands? What?)

that info will help us help you a little more.

 

[famous beagle]

If I were you, I'd look into this combination:

M-Audio Delta 1010LT
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.co...I-Digital-Audio-Computer-Interface?sku=701376

and a used Alesis Studio 32 mixer:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Alesis-Studio-3...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2307cb621c

The M-Audio card has 8 analog inputs and outputs (plus SPDIF and MIDI in/out), and the Studio 32 has 16 channels with direct outs on each channel (and phantom power).

For both, you should be looking at about $400 or less I would suspect. Software shouldn't really be too much of a concern. Reaper is excellent and costs only $60 (the software will work forever --- you just pay the $60 if you continue to use it past 30 days). And there are so many good free plug-ins that you should be set.

Good luck.

 

[cyrano]

S/PDIF is a 2-channel format. There is no way to get more channels through it without adding more optical or coaxial I/Os. Sometimes an optical connection is designed to handle both S/PDIF and ADAT Lightpipe, which would work with the ADA8000. If that interface has that capability they will surely say so in the description.

Whatever gave you that impression?

AES and SPDIF are exactly the same protocol, there's one bit difference in the data stream. Just different connectors. It's basically RS422 which attains easily 6 Mhz. And that's enough for more than two audio channels. Hec, there's even a wireless video implementation (non professional).

And you could send four, six or even more channels if you wanted. After all, that's exactly what you do in a home entertainment center with six or eight channels DTS. Only it never is implemented that way in pro audio gear.

I've always wondered why no one company implemented more channels in pro audio gear. I guess it's because of compatibility? Or maybe because we can use USB or FireWire over short distance?

We still don't know the OP's budget, but maybe a Zoom R16 will do everything he needs? I have no idea about the quality of the mic pre's, but the price is right, I think.

 

[The Cancers]

Well, you seem like you know about this stuff Cyrano so can you confirm my comments about the two specific pieces of gear the OP was looking at?
That is, The E-mu only has S/PDIF or AES/EBU inputs and the ADA8000 only has an ADAT out and so the two units are incompatible.
Right?

 

[cyrano]

That is, The E-mu only has S/PDIF or AES/EBU inputs and the ADA8000 only has an ADAT out and so the two units are incompatible.
Right?

Right. ADAT would be a solution to record 8 channels straight into the DAW, but the EMU has no ADAT and is basically only a two channel input.

There are some SP/DIF to ADAT converters, such as the Mutec MC4, but I'm afraid these don't turn the EMU into an eight channel interface either. And they are probably beyond the OP's budget anyway. I believe RME also has such a converter. And in general, these are not easy things to set up.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Whatever gave you that impression?

The only multi-channel S/PDIF I've seen has been consumer surround gear.

I've always wondered why no one company implemented more channels in pro audio gear.

Perhaps because lossy compressed formats aren't widely accepted for production purposes?

 

[dintymoore]

I'd 2nd famous beagle's (Snoopy, is that you?) recommendation for the Delta 1010LT. That's what I've been using and bang for the buck it's very good. I see them going for $80 - 100 used. The pre's on it aren't happening plus there's no phantom (I don't think) so yes, you'll need a pre or mixer with it.

You can put up to 4 of those in a computer and for $80 ea that would be $360 for 40 digital inputs!

The monitor system that comes with the Delta (a control panel) is very good, plus it has MIDI in&out.

Another good cheapie is the Lexicon Omega which has great reverb and the tone I would say is better than the Delta although it's got less features, still you can use more than one of those too.

 

[cyrano]

The only multi-channel S/PDIF I've seen has been consumer surround gear.

True. Very true.

Perhaps because lossy compressed formats aren't widely accepted for production purposes?

It's just a serial connection, so a manufacturer could easily implement a lossless format. But maybe even those wouldn't get accepted in the pro audio scene?

Or maybe we only got the CPU power to handle lossless in the last couple of years?

 

[bouldersoundguy]

It's just a serial connection, so a manufacturer could easily implement a lossless format. But maybe even those wouldn't get accepted in the pro audio scene?

Or maybe we only got the CPU power to handle lossless in the last couple of years?

I don't really know, but I suspect that S/PDIF was developed for CD players, then adapted for DVD surround by which time there were other solutions for professional or semi-professional multichannel digital audio, like TDIF and Lightpipe.

 

[Coltrain]

Two Questions:

What is your budget?

What are your goals? (i.e. solo artists? Bands? What?)

that info will help us help you a little more.

Thanks again for the help folks. My budget is $500. My goal is to record my band(mostly acoustic music right now). I would like the capability to record a full band but that really depends on the expense. I figure that I could use a virtual drum machine to make up for not having enough channels to record a drum kit. Honestly I think that I could get away with 2 or 4 channels. All I really need to do is record 2 vocals, 2 guitars, and perhaps a bass guitar(maybe I could get away without a bass with a virtual bass). Are there such things as ADAT PCI cards or USB converters? Btw that ZOOM R16 looks realllllly cool. Does anyone have experience with the R16? I'm really interested in it!

 

[cyrano]

The Zoom R16 is brand new, and yes, I digg it too. But perhaps someone can offer some experience with previous gear, such as the Zoom HD16 CD, which should be quite similar.

 

[TeyshaBlue]

Thanks again for the help folks. My budget is $500. My goal is to record my band(mostly acoustic music right now). I would like the capability to record a full band but that really depends on the expense. I figure that I could use a virtual drum machine to make up for not having enough channels to record a drum kit. Honestly I think that I could get away with 2 or 4 channels. All I really need to do is record 2 vocals, 2 guitars, and perhaps a bass guitar(maybe I could get away without a bass with a virtual bass). Are there such things as ADAT PCI cards or USB converters? Btw that ZOOM R16 looks realllllly cool. Does anyone have experience with the R16? I'm really interested in it!

Yeah, I've been using one now for a little over 6 months. I use it primarily as a 8 channel interface into Sonar 8, but I have used it as a standalone unit to get a feel for it's functionality.

The pre's are ok, not great but not a penalty box either. Same for the onboard FX, although some of the guitar FX are quite tasty.

It's functioned flawlessly for me and I regularly take it, my laptop and a couple of monitors for remote sessions. It's been bulletproof.

Fire away with any specific questions.

 

[drstawl]

If you have access to music practice rooms these can be very convenient places to record as the rooms are generally acoustically treated.

One college I recorded at had a band practice room the size of a basketball court in addition to a whole building full of small rooms. That large space was pretty amazing.

 

[Coltrain]

I'm pretty sold on the R16. I might just get one this paycheck lol. It seems to be more than capable for my needs. 8 inputs is plenty and the Hi-Z feature seems like it will be useful as well. Being able to record on the spot without a computer is freaking cool. What about DAWs everyone?? I've used Audacity, LMM, and M-audio's Sesssion. I'm looking for something a little more user friendly but still vary capable. Is it just personal preference? Cubase 5le looks pretty cool. What do y'all think? Sonar? I wouldn't want to spend more than $200 on software lol. And any reccomendations for mics? I already have a sm58 and a sm57. I'm thinking that I might need a condenser.

 

[Coltrain]

And that would be awesome if my university had some practice rooms! unfortunately you have to be in the music department to have access to anything like that. But maybe I can ninja in there. Thanks for the reccomendation

 

[TeyshaBlue]

I'm pretty sold on the R16. I might just get one this paycheck lol. It seems to be more than capable for my needs. 8 inputs is plenty and the Hi-Z feature seems like it will be useful as well. Being able to record on the spot without a computer is freaking cool. What about DAWs everyone?? I've used Audacity, LMM, and M-audio's Sesssion. I'm looking for something a little more user friendly but still vary capable. Is it just personal preference? Cubase 5le looks pretty cool. What do y'all think? Sonar? I wouldn't want to spend more than $200 on software lol. And any reccomendations for mics? I already have a sm58 and a sm57. I'm thinking that I might need a condenser.

The ZOOM R16 ships with Cubase LE. You could get started with it for nothing extra. I would also look into Reaper. Fully functional copy is free...if you decide you like it, send 'em $60. Lots of guys around here swear by it so you've got an eager base of users to field questions.