Recording for improvement vs Live Performances

[dbsoccer]

So in-between other responsibilities and hobbies I come back to my interest in singing. Let me recap a bit. I sing solo along with on-line purchased backing tracks (Karaoke-ish). When the mood suits I'll venture to a local Open Mic with the hopes no one will throw beer. Over the several years I've been doing this I've learned a lot (thanks to this forum et al), vocal lessons, studying and simply just doing it. It's fun. I currently feed my backing tracks (using an iPhone) into a Mackie 802VLZ4 mixer (5/6) and a Shure Beta87C mic into the Mic1 channel. I use IEM out of the AUX send port to listen. So in the privacy of my 'Home Studio' I can practice as I wish. Sometimes I sound pretty good and sometimes not. I had thoughts of using a Zoom H2n recorder to capture my talent so I could play it back and be able to better critique and improve. I leaned the H2n, even though I would plug it into the board, it would still record the ambient so I now have a H1 Essential that will eliminate the ambient issue.

One evening when I was practicing I realized that anyone in my 'Studio' could hear my voice but they could not hear the backing track. I do have a pair of studio monitors that I could use as well and this would fix this issue. But the real issue I realized is the sound is capture with my H1 Essential will not be what an audience will hear at an Open Mic. It seems anything I record (and learn/improve from) will never be what an audience will hear in a live performance. I realized that with only my voice being heard while practicing in my 'Studio' had someone dropped in to listen I very possibly sounded like a bleating sheep to them but sounded great in my in-ears.

Certainly this is not a new issue and I was hoping to get some insight from others who deal with this.

Thanks.

 

[rob aylestone]

I tend to think that some people have a voice that sounds nice with no treatment at all, anywhere, but the majority benefit from EQ and simple things like reverb. That would be me. When I was teaching in college, one student had a dreadful voice. He could not sing. Everything was wrong. Tone, tuning, control. Awful. He is now 47 and thinking about retiring from being a ……… wedding singer. No band. Just tracks. He developed a style. Fixed the tuning. Produced a character. I’d rather hear somebody with a sensible bit of reverb than somebody using a harmoniser or auto tune!

 

[Maya Clars]

So in-between other responsibilities and hobbies I come back to my interest in singing. Let me recap a bit. I sing solo along with on-line purchased backing tracks (Karaoke-ish). When the mood suits I'll venture to a local Open Mic with the hopes no one will throw beer. Over the several years I've been doing this I've learned a lot (thanks to this forum et al), vocal lessons, studying and simply just doing it. It's fun. I currently feed my backing tracks (using an iPhone) into a Mackie 802VLZ4 mixer (5/6) and a Shure Beta87C mic into the Mic1 channel. I use IEM out of the AUX send port to listen. So in the privacy of my 'Home Studio' I can practice as I wish. Sometimes I sound pretty good and sometimes not. I had thoughts of using a Zoom H2n recorder to capture my talent so I could play it back and be able to better critique and improve. I leaned the H2n, even though I would plug it into the board, it would still record the ambient so I now have a H1 Essential that will eliminate the ambient issue.

One evening when I was practicing I realized that anyone in my 'Studio' could hear my voice but they could not hear the backing track. I do have a pair of studio monitors that I could use as well and this would fix this issue. But the real issue I realized is the sound is capture with my H1 Essential will not be what an audience will hear at an Open Mic. It seems anything I record (and learn/improve from) will never be what an audience will hear in a live performance. I realized that with only my voice being heard while practicing in my 'Studio' had someone dropped in to listen I very possibly sounded like a bleating sheep to them but sounded great in my in-ears.

Certainly this is not a new issue and I was hoping to get some insight from others who deal with this.

Thanks.

Recording vocals is really interesting cuz every person has different qualities of their voice. I guess it's good to analyze everything even more and try to find issues so you could reflect on them and start improving something little by little. Through individual experimentations you can find the best way to capture the natural tone of the vocal.

 

[Papanate]

I realized that with only my voice being heard while practicing in my 'Studio' had someone dropped in to listen I very possibly sounded like a bleating sheep to them but sounded great in my in-ears.

Certainly this is not a new issue and I was hoping to get some insight from others who deal with this.

IEMs are a problem when determining how to mix yourself live - if you want to 'hear' how you sound in a live situation - put up whatever you use for a PA and record that as you perform- set a X/Y array or Blumlein Array about 15' from the speakers - that will give you the truth for better or worse.

 

[dbsoccer]

set a X/Y array or Blumlein Array about .....???? New terms. I'll Google these. Thanks to all.

Yes the biggest issue is by purposely isolating yourself from the very speakers your audience will use to hear you, you can't hear what they hear. If I get the mix right, and the volume right, in my ears I have to assume the board guy can set the house volume correctly so this may not be an issue.

But I will record myself in my studio and see if I'm a wonderful there as I am in my IEMs.

 

[dbsoccer]

After a quick investigation it appears my Zoom H1 Essential recorder will create an X/Y array. Thoughts - Papanate?

I have two Kustom 10" Powered Stage monitors. Papanate, when you suggested setting an array about 15' from the speakers and learning my recorder supports an X/Y arrangement can you be a bit more specific? Would an equilateral triangle, 15' on a side, with two speakers 15' apart and the recorder 15' from both speakers work (recorder facing the speakers). I would position myself such that the recorder is between me and the speakers with me facing the speakers as. I would assure I get a good seal on the in-ears so I hear very little of the speakers plus I can crank those down as well. And there will be level setting issues in a couple of places. Is this what you had in mind? Thanks.

 

[PitchTempoAndriy]

Your H1essential already contains the two microphones for a 90-degree XY recording. XY describes their angle and placement inside the recorder; it does not require a particular triangle between your loudspeakers and recorder. Zoom explains the built-in arrangement here: https://zoomcorp.com/manuals/h1essential-en/

For this test, put the speakers where they would be for the audience and place the recorder at a representative listening position, aimed towards the performance. Fifteen feet is a starting suggestion, not a requirement. Try the same short passage from two or three positions at a comfortable volume. Compare the recordings at similar playback loudness: farther away usually gives you more room sound, while closer placement gives a more direct balance.

Keep your normal performing position rather than rearranging yourself just to fit a triangle. A room recording tells you about that position in that room; a separate mixer recording is useful for checking the vocal/backing-track balance without the room. Neither alone captures exactly what every audience member hears.