R U going to heaven

R U going to heaven

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 40.0%
  • No

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Don't Know

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • "Frankly Scarlett, I don't give a damn."

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • I am not a believer.

    Votes: 3 30.0%

  • Total voters
    10
Well for instance... the bible says you shall not lie down with a man. So are against gays? That is your right to say so
The division between the old and New Testament is significant. Many progressive Christians, for example, might point to Matthew 19:12 to support the concept that some are born gay. (The eunuchs from birth debate)

 
I will write an acoustic track. Give me 10 mins xxx
I wrote those lyrics and the music that goes with it a mere 40+ years ago very simple...but tricky......... no recordings of it... just fond memories of days gone by.

Feel free to have some fun with it...it's one of many of my musical conversations with the great "I AM"
 
I wrote those lyrics and the music that goes with it a mere 40+ years ago very simple...but tricky......... no recordings of it... just fond memories of days gone by.

Feel free to have some fun with it...it's one of many of my musical conversations with the great "I AM"
I have wrote a very drunken terrible take of the first section. It starts in e minor 7 and is a work in progress. I can get it much better when I sober up. I really like your words TAE and would like to work in future if you want xx
 
I have wrote a very drunken terrible take of the first section. It starts in e minor 7 and is a work in progress. I can get it much better when I sober up. I really like your words TAE and would like to work in future if you want xx
Please understand a rough drunk take of the first section.
 
I wrote those lyrics and the music that goes with it a mere 40+ years ago very simple...but tricky......... no recordings of it... just fond memories of days gone by.

Feel free to have some fun with it...it's one of many of my musical conversations with the great "I AM"
This is riduculous it wont allow me to attach a file from my audio recorder
 
I have done it before
I am sorry TAE I like you lyrics very much and did a litttle take on my phone and acoustic guitar but it would not let me send... would not accept the file. So I am very sorry. I have asked Gecko to delete my account and hopefully he will do so. I am not well and just wish to try to recover in my own way and time. Thanks and take care kind man xxxx
 
NO ONE is going to heaven. The only ones that will are children. They're truly innocent. The rest of us are sinners. If we were repentant, maybe. But, we're not.

I've had that Dali Divine Comedy set over a year. I hang one at a time. I read the Canto (since I'm a dullard, I don't understand it at all). Then I read a summary of the Canto and Hell is pretty crowded. They go through the different reasons these people are in hell, and they all make sense, not just from a religious stand point, but from a right and wrong stand point.

It is what it is. Can you imagine being an asshole for most of your life, and then as you die ask God's forgiveness, and he says "sure". I wouldn't want to go to that place. That's too easy, and it'd be filled with bad people.
 
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It is what it is. Can you imagine being an asshole for most of your life, and then as you die ask God's forgiveness, and he says "sure". I wouldn't want to go to that place. That's too easy, and it'd be filled with bad people.
I can imagine that.

Once upon a time there were these 3 guys being crucified. The guy in the middle was a totally innocent, kind and loving God / man. The two others were evil screw ups. The one on left kept giving the guy in the middle shit about "hey if you're the son of God why don't you save yourself" the guy on the right said to the guy on the left "Hey dude STFU! We're evil assholes and this man has done nothing to deserve this" And then the guy in the middle says dude that was pretty cool, you're going to be with me in heaven today...and so it was. So yeah according to the Big Book a man can be a screw up right down to the last seconds of his life and be saved and go to heaven...why? Because just like you said when we land here on earth to do our time we are perfect...and then we wallow in the pig stye of life and get all dirty.....we die...rinse and repeat ...we are "born again"...Well that's one crazy way to look at it anyway.
 
Can you imagine being an asshole for most of your life, and then as you die ask God's forgiveness, and he says "sure".
For me this is dependent on understanding two things. Firstly, what God's intention was in creating humans in the first place and secondly, knowing what is genuine in a person. Mere lip service cuts no ice with God. Asking for forgiveness means shit if you do not genuinely mean it or are prepared to turn one's life around and get in tune with God's song. And God'll know. I mean, let's face it, we are finite and we can often work out if someone is being genuine about something !
For someone on their deathbed to ask God's forgiveness, they have got to come to some pretty hefty realizations about themselves, their attitudes through life and their life, and much won't be pretty.
Even in the privacy of our own thoughts, it can be amazing how difficult it sometimes is to admit we were wrong or out of order. God's not thick ~ he knows if we mean it.
The penitent heart is important to God.
I wouldn't want to go to that place.
And you have been given the freedom to not want to be where God is. But what you're describing doesn't really gell with the God that's spoken about in the Bible writings. I understand there are lots of different concepts of this, but I don't come from those perspectives so I'm not going to represent them.
That's too easy, and it'd be filled with bad people.
If God was an idiot with no kind of nous or discernment of people and our thoughts and ways, you'd be right.
The world that exists in the afterlife will be crammed full with people that know they are fortunate to be there. People whose lives have been turned around in God's direction.
 
For someone on their deathbed to ask God's forgiveness, they have got to come to some pretty hefty realizations about themselves, their attitudes through life and their life, and much won't be pretty.
In this story of how you get to or don't get to go to heaven, the proof is in the pudding. Man Jesus I know I screwed up, I feel bad that I did, please don't forget me when you are in heaven....And Jesus said, it's all good man, I can see you are sincere, I'll see you on the other side buddy.

Dismas recognized Jesus as the Son of God and asked him to take him to his kingdom , as is written in Luke 23:42:

"Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” Jesus replied, “Amen, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
Dismas never read a single word in the new testament...he may have heard of stories from the Tora and yet in a instance...he's in the the good guy club.

Our works are like rags....


The God I know can see through us like glass...he can not be bullshitted. He is also there for us at any moment when we need him to lead, guide and protect us through all of our victories, trials and tribulations of life, here and in eternity. He is a good God, sometimes the answers are not what we want to see, hear or experience but in the end it is out a love beyond our ability to conceive and for our best interest. Least that's how it's been and continues to be for me.
 
For me this is dependent on understanding two things. Firstly, what God's intention was in creating humans in the first place and secondly, knowing what is genuine in a person. Mere lip service cuts no ice with God. Asking for forgiveness means shit if you do not genuinely mean it or are prepared to turn one's life around and get in tune with God's song. And God'll know. I mean, let's face it, we are finite and we can often work out if someone is being genuine about something !
For someone on their deathbed to ask God's forgiveness, they have got to come to some pretty hefty realizations about themselves, their attitudes through life and their life, and much won't be pretty.
Even in the privacy of our own thoughts, it can be amazing how difficult it sometimes is to admit we were wrong or out of order. God's not thick ~ he knows if we mean it.
The penitent heart is important to God.

And you have been given the freedom to not want to be where God is. But what you're describing doesn't really gell with the God that's spoken about in the Bible writings. I understand there are lots of different concepts of this, but I don't come from those perspectives so I'm not going to represent them.

If God was an idiot with no kind of nous or discernment of people and our thoughts and ways, you'd be right.
The world that exists in the afterlife will be crammed full with people that know they are fortunate to be there. People whose lives have been turned around in God's direction.
I don't think God's an idiot. I do think the overwhelming majority of people are. Now, more so than ever.
I can imagine that.

Once upon a time there were these 3 guys being crucified. The guy in the middle was a totally innocent, kind and loving God / man. The two others were evil screw ups. The one on left kept giving the guy in the middle shit about "hey if you're the son of God why don't you save yourself" the guy on the right said to the guy on the left "Hey dude STFU! We're evil assholes and this man has done nothing to deserve this" And then the guy in the middle says dude that was pretty cool, you're going to be with me in heaven today...and so it was. So yeah according to the Big Book a man can be a screw up right down to the last seconds of his life and be saved and go to heaven...why? Because just like you said when we land here on earth to do our time we are perfect...and then we wallow in the pig stye of life and get all dirty.....we die...rinse and repeat ...we are "born again"...Well that's one crazy way to look at it anyway.
Let's say the guy on the left was a thief, and the guy on the right was a rapist/murderer. That's the way I'd look at it. That's why I'm not God.

I sincerely have no idea what happens after our bodies stop breathing. You know when we drop dead. I am NOT a historian. I am truly ignorant about history. I'm fine with that. I listen to music, watch movies and drink beer. I'm happy as a pig in shit. What I do find fascinating is, before there were humans sailing the seas, each people were basically cut off from the others. Yet, each civilization had a God, things that were edible, and other things that weren't (I bet there was a lot of trial and error in this department). Then there were the potentially bad things like smoking and alcohol. Each culture had this. How did each culture figure out smoking or alcohol?

I always like to think back before the world was connected. Those people had it going on, when they weren't eating poison. How many people do you think died before someone said "Maybe it's this that's killing us?"
 
Also ... you're comparing the killing of 1000s of innocent children to finding a speck of dirt in an otherwise spotless room? What would it take for that speck to become a pile in your eyes?
For it to have been done by human beings rather than God who has a breadth of vision and view that we can't even imagine on acid or ayahuasca and who has control of what happens at the end of a life.
Can you imagine anyone today acting like that and getting a pass?
No. Or ever. But then, God wasn't and still isn't just "anyone."
Even with someone as evil as Hitler ... How many people today would think that killing the first-born child of every Third Reich soldier would be a just punishment for what Hitler did?
The name and concept of "Hitler" fascinates me because it refers to an individual, a philosophical principle and a collective evil that involved millions of people and their thinking and ultimately their actions.
The simple fact about "Hitler" is that he was the figurehead of something that had been bubbling under the surface for centuries {and, I'm ashamed to say, included theologians like Martin Luther among its number} and what went on in Nazi Germany went far, far beyond any individual.
So when the rhetorical point is made about "punishing" Hitler, that is something of a misnomer because it isn't about the punishment of an individual. And actually, there are possibly plenty of people that wouldn't have a problem with the killing of every firstborn child of a Third Reich soldier if it meant their collective evil would be stopped.
God's action in Egypt was not solely against Pharoah. Pharoah was the figurehead, yes, the thinking acting figurehead, but still, the figurehead of what had been going on at that point for close to 430 years.

God's supposed to be all powerful.
The end of the story is somewhat overlooked here and the clue is in the phrase "all-powerful." Logically, being all-powerful indicates that God would know things that we don't and one thing's for sure ~ we don't know the fate of those firstborn. If God holds the keys to the afterlife, it kind of follows that any decisions made must carry that in mind and when it comes down to it, it's us that assumes the worst or assumes that these firstborn {and they would have been of every age} would all have gone to some kind of eternal destruction. That is in no way stated in the text or implied anywhere else. I'd say it was deliberately not commented on because a] it's not the emphasis of the story and b] it was for God and God alone to know.

He couldn't think of another way to free "his" people?
Pharoah dictated the terms of the "battle."
In ancient times, as now, when two tribes or nations were at war, it wasn't just armies that suffered and died and that was part and parcel of the way people thought. The Egyptians happened to have picked on God's people at that time. God often reflected human behaviour back on humans precisely to demonstrate what was wrong with it and what happened to the firstborn was a reflection of what a past Pharoah had decreed on the people of Israel ~ something the Egyptians had no problem with. According to the story they were in cahoots with the Pharaoh and were quite happy for Israelite baby boys to be chucked in the Nile.
Except ironically, Pharoah's daughter.
 
For it to have been done by human beings rather than God who has a breadth of vision and view that we can't even imagine on acid or ayahuasca and who has control of what happens at the end of a life.

No. Or ever. But then, God wasn't and still isn't just "anyone."

The name and concept of "Hitler" fascinates me because it refers to an individual, a philosophical principle and a collective evil that involved millions of people and their thinking and ultimately their actions.
The simple fact about "Hitler" is that he was the figurehead of something that had been bubbling under the surface for centuries {and, I'm ashamed to say, included theologians like Martin Luther among its number} and what went on in Nazi Germany went far, far beyond any individual.
So when the rhetorical point is made about "punishing" Hitler, that is something of a misnomer because it isn't about the punishment of an individual. And actually, there are possibly plenty of people that wouldn't have a problem with the killing of every firstborn child of a Third Reich soldier if it meant their collective evil would be stopped.
God's action in Egypt was not solely against Pharoah. Pharoah was the figurehead, yes, the thinking acting figurehead, but still, the figurehead of what had been going on at that point for close to 430 years.


The end of the story is somewhat overlooked here and the clue is in the phrase "all-powerful." Logically, being all-powerful indicates that God would know things that we don't and one thing's for sure ~ we don't know the fate of those firstborn. If God holds the keys to the afterlife, it kind of follows that any decisions made must carry that in mind and when it comes down to it, it's us that assumes the worst or assumes that these firstborn {and they would have been of every age} would all have gone to some kind of eternal destruction. That is in no way stated in the text or implied anywhere else. I'd say it was deliberately not commented on because a] it's not the emphasis of the story and b] it was for God and God alone to know.


Pharoah dictated the terms of the "battle."
In ancient times, as now, when two tribes or nations were at war, it wasn't just armies that suffered and died and that was part and parcel of the way people thought. The Egyptians happened to have picked on God's people at that time. God often reflected human behaviour back on humans precisely to demonstrate what was wrong with it and what happened to the firstborn was a reflection of what a past Pharoah had decreed on the people of Israel ~ something the Egyptians had no problem with. According to the story they were in cahoots with the Pharaoh and were quite happy for Israelite baby boys to be chucked in the Nile.
Except ironically, Pharoah's daughter.
While I appreciate you taking the time to go back and provide thoughtful responses to these earlier posts, these said responses make it exceptionally clear to me that we're not operating on the same principles of logic. Therefore, I don't see the need to continue the discussion. Best regards.
 
It doesn't matter how much or how little we sin. Any sin is unacceptable in the eyes of God. The ONLY way to get to heaven is to accept Christ as your savior.
It's the pre-disposition towards sinful actions that leads to those actions that get in the way of the relationship we're supposed to have with God. Christ is merely {😲} the means chosen to do something about it. And to show what a big deal it is to God.
When you say
It doesn't matter how much or how little we sin. Any sin is unacceptable in the eyes of God
you kind of minimize the seriousness to God of sin. Sin arises from actions that arise from a state of being. A state of being that, let's face it, most of us don't really take that seriously if we take it seriously at all and one that we don't particularly want to do anything about.
I know this is a terrible analogy so I'll apologize in advance, but I think of it like someone who has written a song and they know how they want that song to go. They know all the harmonies they want, they know the various instrument parts and where they are all going to fall, they know all the phrasing. But they want their bandmates to play these parts because they appreciate what their bandmates can do when they bring their skills to bear.
But the bandmates want to play what they want to play. They aren't too interested in what you've worked out for your song and how you want it to sound. Because they've heard in their heads how they think things should go.
But it's your song.
This happened with "Hey Jude" ¬> Paul was showing George how it went and he more or less knew how he wanted it to go. At the end of each line, George had this idea to answer with a guitar part and he was keen to stamp his mark on Paul's song. But Paul said no, I don't want that. And he and George got into a big beef about it and apparently, George was really upset and that spilt over some months later into what George said to Paul in front of the cameras during the infamous "Let it be" session where they appear to argue.
I'm a big George fan and I back him way more often than not but I think he was wrong on that occasion. I'm glad Paul stuck to his guns. Because of that, we have the great "Hey Jude" as it is, not adorned with George's lead guitar all over it.
God and his world is like Paul and his song. George and his guitar is like us and our bent towards sin. The song was Paul's and was for him to say how it goes. The world is God's and is for God to say how it goes. Now, both God and Paul {this sounds so funny ! 😉} were in a position where the situation was slightly complicated by partnership, but it was/is partnership with heavy nuance and certain caveats.

I did say it was a terrible analogy. 💃🏽🧜🏽‍♀️

If this is correct, then how can you say we're not being punished for something that wasn't our fault?
It isn't the fault of any White person today that maybe some of their ancestors or kinfolk engaged in the slave trade. Or in the colonization of various lands. Yet, many White people are open to ideas like reparations or affirmative action or aid to certain nations which demonstrates that it is possible to actively have a view about today's happenings that spring from yesterday's events even though those White people that feel that way had nothing to do with the establishment of yesterday's events. Them benefiting from them is arguable.
We were born sinners, and we must repent - i.e., ask for forgiveness for being born that way - or we burn in hell ...
One doesn't ask for forgiveness for being born with a predisposition towards sin. One asks for forgiveness for some of our actions that we engage in because of that state of being in sin.
If an autistic child or adult is in the habit of boxing people in the face and it can be traced to be due to their condition, do we encourage that person to apologize or not ? Do we encourage them to look for other means of expression ?
 
While I appreciate you taking the time to go back and provide thoughtful responses to these earlier posts, these said responses make it exceptionally clear to me that we're not operating on the same principles of logic. Therefore, I don't see the need to continue the discussion
Oh. Ok. 👍🏿
 
we don't know the fate of those firstborn.
That's not true. Recent studies of ancient Egypt have revealed that food sources (grain) had become infected.
What is true is that the firstborn were those allowed to eat first and were among the first to die.
 
The division between the old and New Testament is significant
It is when it is shown what that division entails but in reality the two are pretty joined at the hip. Much of the OT is time-specific and quite a lot of it is history or historical. Jesus was sort of paradoxical about the matter. He upheld the OT but also went beyond what much of it appeared to say in expounding its deeper meaning which the people of Israel hadn't grasped. The church in and since the 1st century has been often very much the same, I'm sad to say.
Many progressive Christians, for example, might point to Matthew 19:12 to support the concept that some are born gay. (The eunuchs from birth debate)
And they'd be wrong to point to Matthew 19:12 to try to prove that point because that passage doesn't have that in mind at all. To prove that point one has to look somewhere other than Matthew. Jesus' quotes are to do with marriage, sex and sexual abstinence and disability as well as touching on the horrendous things that human beings do to one another in the name of power. He uses these to seriously challenge the apostles' staid and traditional thinking.
 
That's not true. Recent studies of ancient Egypt have revealed that food sources (grain) had become infected.
What is true is that the firstborn were those allowed to eat first and were among the first to die.
I mean the eternal fate.
People that followed God faithfully to the end sometimes died horrible deaths. But that was not the end of the story as far as God's concerned.
 
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