questions about MC012's for RE and everyone else

[James HE]

I was leaning towards a pair of sm-81's, but I've been eying the MC012. (overheads and general stereo pair) And I think I can get what I want out of the MC012 a little cheaper (which will leave me with some money for preamps ) I'm thinking I'll get two preamp bodies from the Sound Room, two cardiod caps, and one omni cap. This would be $450! Also was thinking of getting the cardiod capsules matched for an extra $60. But... if just the capsules are matched are the mics truly matched? Do the preamp bodies need to be matched too?

I was thinking of settling for c1000's, Nt-3's or 012's from Guitar Satan in the $300 range for the pair, but I think I can swing for the Soundroom Octavia's in a few weeks...

I'll need to get a stereo pre for them, anybody use the 012's and a dbx 386? presonus blue tube?

-jhe

 

[skippy]

MC012s. Love 'em. I now have 4, all bought from Guitar Satan (hear me out before flinging tomatoes). I personally believe that the issues with QC that RE and others have discussed are very real, and when I buy any more, they *will* be from the Sound Room. My first two (012 kits with all 3 capsules) were bought before I knew that the Sound Room existed, and the second two (cardioid capsules only) were bought in a blind freakin' panic just a few weeks ago while I was driving to an completely unexpected location recording gig for a large choral ensemble.

QC problems experienced: one of the 4 preamp bodies is wired out-of-phase with respect to the other three, and one has what sounds like a cold solder joint (probably the capsule bias leak resistor) and occasionally develops some very unpleasant LF noise until is it thwacked a few times. Yup, that's a 50% problem rate, but these are not showstopping problems- they are annoyances. Like the man said: "Cheap is a property that excuses *many* faults..."

Just the same, I'll probably be sending those two preamp bodies to the Sound Room for repair, and the cost of that will wipe out any price advantage I might have experienced getting them from Guitar Satan. The *convenience* certainly bought me something, but with proper planning and some advance notice, I'd have bought them from the preferred vendor, and my life would have been easier (true in general, no?). Enough said on that front.

That's the downside. The upside is that these are very, *very* good mics when they are working properly. The bang for the buck ratio is very high. And if someone knocks over a mic stand, and one of them gets trashed, I can shrug it off much more easily than with a higher-dollar mic. I have no emotional attachment to my 012s: they are simply workhorses.

I do a lot of XY stereo pair work with a capella vocal music using unmatched, run-of-the-mill 012s with excellent results. I'm not at all convinced that matching is worth the extra money for my specific application, although I have to admit that I really do like that spiffy box. Your mileage may vary on the matching issue, of course. I'm certain that it depends entirely on what you're trying to do. If I had to build my current choral mic setup again, I'd just order 4 unmatched 012s from the Sound Room, and be done with it.

Matching the preamp bodies is primarily a level-matching exercise: IMHO, barring gross circuitry issues, the bodies have less impact on the overall sound than the capsules. At this point, I have enough of the preamp bodies that if one sounds like hammered dogmeat in a given situation, I can just pick another (;-). However, just to convince you that I'm completely schizoid, when I finally do order the pair of Lomo M1/M3 capsules I've been lusting after, I will have them matched. With large-diaphragm mics, capsule tuning and diaphragm tensioning is _everything_, and I do think it'd be worth it in that case.

No question about it: even for *unmatched* mics, the slightly higher price charged for the higher level of QC offered by the Sound Room, and the fact that the proprietor will actually stand behind the product, is well worth it. Guitar Satan has what I call a concrete warranty on mics. As soon as you hit the concrete outside their door, the warranty expires. No smiley...

 

[James HE]

After that last post skippy you should work the phones for the sound room. I'm sold!

My main concern now is the -10db pads. Would I need them right off the bat? I'll be using them as overheads and for acoustic guitar, Even with a real heavy hitter, I can't see really needing them, or am I mistaken? right now I'm using a single NT-1 overhead, and that seems to handle the levels fine, are the 012's much more sensitive?

I will defintly get the capsules matched, maybe pickup the omni capsule (or a matched pair)later if I can't swing the cash at the time. By the way, I think you can get the box that the matched pairs come in seperatly, which is what I'm planning on doing, and filling her two holes at a time. (geez I crack myself up)

So you picked up a pair on the way to a gig at Guitar Satan... heh, I can only imagine that panic... hoping you don't get a dud...

-jhe

 

[skippy]

I haven't used the 012s yet in what I would call a really high-SPL environment, so I can't comment on their behavior near the limit. From what I read, though, those pads tend to stay in the box most of the time for other folks who've used them as drum overheads. I play drums as well, but my acoustic kit hasn't ventured out of its cases since I discovered E-drums!

Anyway, I wouldn't sweat the pads for the moment. Run without them for a while, and see what you think. You can also do a Deja search on the mics, and see the discussions over in RAP about using them as overheads- it makes for interesting reading.

That gig was amusing. Phone rings just after noon one fine day, it's a choral director for a 100+ voice group that I've done a little live sound for. They want to do a 2-or 3-tune demo-quality recording, and they've booked a church that has decent acoustics to do it in. And if they like the demo, they'll book me back to do a full-length CD for them, and money will change hands at the appropriate points in the process. Sounds like fun- ought be a walk in the park. Am I available to do the demo thang? "Sure", I say. "When?". "Oh, how's 4 o'clock sound?".

Note to self: always ask "when" *before* saying "sure". Did I mention that there was an hour of travel time between here and the venue?

Yow- oh shit. Load up all the tall mic stands, the road board, the snake and cable reels, the pair of 012s which are clearly not gonna be enough, one of the NT2s and a popper stopper for any solo work, the SRM450s for foldback, the Masterlink, the good headphones, grab some Jolt and a handful of Tagamet, and GET MOVING...

I stopped at Guitar Satan, and tried to get the attention of the pro-audio salesdrone. He was very busy explaining the finer points of foam windscreens to the cleavage of a comely young blonde thing whose body was most definitely a product of engineering and not nature... The clock is ticking, yobbo! After what seemed to be a geological era, I finally got his attention and said "Gimmetwo012sacableandsomecansandgetthefuckouttamyway", or something to that effect. Plugged them in, gave them the quickie "can you fog a mirror" test, paid the drone, and boogied (to the extent that my superannuated, steatopygous carcass can be said to "boogie").

Got to the venue as the chorus was warming up, did the blitz-tempo setup, realized there there's no table to set the board and Masterlink up on- fine, they'll work okay stacked in my lap. Started soloing mics for the health check, and one of the brandy-new 012s now sounds like a cement mixer (my cold joint). Why didn't you do that in the _store_, you gravy-sucking pig? Take it down, turn my back to the chorus, give it three short, sharp raps and a handful of choice obscenities. Hang it back up, smile at the chorus- it behaves just fine for the rest of the day...

I roughed together a half-decent live mix in the phones, punched go on the Masterlink, and striped three tunes in a little over 2 hours (this choral director does _not_ screw around). Rendered the material, handed over the CD-R before the last of the talent had even got off the risers, gratefully accepted the check in payment, and was on my way home by 8pm.

I'm getting too old for this location stuff. Now I remember why I got _out_ of this business for all those years!