Sennheiser MD 421-II or Someting Else?

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easyrider

easyrider

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Tom Duty at the moment is 2 x SM57.

xXTyl2fl.jpg


OH are Oktava mk 012- Fine to my ears

SM57 on snare = Fine to my ears

SM57 rack tom and floor- Floppy thin and clicky :yawn:

Well I am thinking of getting AKG C414 matched pair for OH and moving my Oktava's down to my toms replacing the SM57's

The thing is..I'm in a quandary...I like the sound of the Oktava's as OH. It pleases me. The SM57's don't.

Do I keep the Oktava as OH and spend £670 on a pair of Sennheiser MD 421-II for the toms.

Or spend £1350 on AKG C414 and move the Oktavas to the toms?

Problem is... I dont have any Senn 421's to test and no C414's either...

I would hate to drop £1350 on some 414 to be dissapointed over the Oktava's

I would hate to spend £670 on a pair of 421's and be dissapointed with them too.

I'm at a crossroads and don't know which road to take....

Any insights into my plans?
 
First thing I'd try is to swap the tom and OHs, i.e., put a couple 57s up and convince yourself the Oktavas make sense anywhere else. (Personally, I wouldn't move them if you like them where they are, and C414s are really nice mics but overkill for that application IMO.)

Those 421s have always looked like a nice addition but I mic drums so infrequently they never appear on my short list, never mind the expense. If you have the money and your main interest is recording drums it's hard to fault a choice like that. Probably wouldn't be the mics' fault if it doesn't sound great ;) - but maybe others here have some more affordable options. There's a lot of great sounding dynamics out there for considerably less!
 
+1.
421s are almost like 57s in that there'll always be a place for them. They're hard tools to not use.

They're ridiculously common too so it may be possible to get a pair on loan whether from a friend, college, studio, or shop.
If you have, or have access to, a 7b give that a try. I find it very similar to 421s in most applications.

Admittedly I have, and use, older 421s. I believe the II are a bit brighter?

Regardless, for kicks, bass, guitar amps, snares, toms, even vocals...Very hard to go wrong!

If you're happy to buy used they can be had for pretty cheap.
 
I actually have the 012's on my rack toms and believe it, mk219 on floor tom. I like the sound I'm getting . The 10 db pads are on all three. I'm using some mxl 840 matched pairs for overheads and an at3035 for room
 
I'll throw in a cheaper curved ball:

Buy a MXL V67Q Stereo mic as an overhead Link

Buy a CAD TSM411 Link, or a few, shop around they are avalable very cheap in some outlets and you can buy in a kit, I love the sound of this on snare and retired the SM57 for the snare duties. I recon they will sound good on toms as well.

All of this will be cheaper then the C414's and the Oktava's. Buy the way I do own 421's and I do like them also, but I now use mine mostly on guitar cabs.

Alan.
 
Thanks for the input... The 421 I have decided are just to pricey for tom duty...They have a reputation as being great mikes but the majority of the sound comes from the OH and I like the Oktava sound.

I may ditch the mic clips on the 57's and try the 57 on mic stands and play with mic placement. Face them more vertically down than they are now...I have watched a few you tube videos of the 421 and 57 and the differenrce in tone is not worth £670 to me after some research. I understand they are useful for other things but I want a set and forget setup for my drums to I can get recording quickly.

Comparison I found here

YouTube

I'll have a play this weekend and try to the scratch the itch of my GAS :p

The AT230 look good for £139 a pop and they sound fatter over the 57 so I might get a couple of these. I could then move the 57's to the Guitar amps

I would even have some money left for a Beyerdynamic M201TG for the snare...

Having said that I have seen a couple of Oktava MK 219 that look interesting for the price!

My head hurts lol

YouTube
 
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Hey,
Fair enough. A 219 is another mic that's good to have around.
I find them really useful and not hyped like a lot of the cheaper mass produced microphones.

I can't give you model numbers but maybe it'd be worth researching budget larger diaphragm dynamics?
Anything billed as a kick drum mic would/could work well.
Personally I'd avoid the D112, though. It's got a very strong signature scooped sound, IMO.
 
I'm kind of surprised that you can't get something decent from a pair of 57's on your toms. I assume that you have played around with mic placement and still aren't getting the sound you want. Personally, I've always found MD 421's to be a little "bottom" heavy for toms, so they may be just the ticket for you. Most drummers I work with these days want lots of punch and not a lot of bottom. I always use 57's on toms for Jazz kits and other old school sounding projects. I use Audix D2's and D4's for a more modern punchy sound.
 
Well, I love the old MD-421's on floor tom - never tried the II's though but rarely seen any complains from anyone but snubs who likes to critisize most things out of pure habit :D
MD-421's on toms is a truly classic sound - but you won't many mic clips to hold them successfully. I like the MD-421 on rock vocals even more than on toms though - works tremendously well on a range of voices and so easy to get to sit in the mix.

I don't own the MD-421 so mostly use 57's on rack toms and tend to experiment on the floor tom depending on the song and which is mics are busy at the same time. I find the 57's to sound decent on toms. I record on tape (lower end machine) and got a nice console though so perhaps my recording chain is a bit more forgiving than yours.

Seems you decided against them so maybe I should shut up.

On another note I'd love to try the Oktava 012's. Only got one SDC and while I love it (old Sennheiser MKH-406) it's too pricey for me to get more of them at the moment. Got the Oktava MK-319 and I find it excellent for the same reasons Steenorama mentions for the MK-219. Think they share the same capsule?
I respectfully disagree about the D112 though, always found it easy to work with. Scoped how?
 
easyrider said:
I would even have some money left for a Beyerdynamic M201TG for the snare...

Having said that I have seen a couple of Oktava MK 219 that look interesting for the price!

My head hurts lol

YouTube
Click to expand...

And oh yeah, definitely get a M201 TG for the snare. It's great, especially combined with a mic below the snare too. Started experimenting with SDC and fuckpiles of gating (to kill the rattling quickly) late and dig it. Any half decent dynamic can be very usefull too though.
 
Why not get an Audix D2 and D4 for the rack and floor tom? That's maybe the cost of a single 421, and they're great tom mics. Other good choices IMO are the AT Pro25 and Beyer D50d/i50D. The Beyerdynamics share the same element, I believe, but the D50d is shorter and has an eq switch for kick drum. Both can be found discounted new and used, I have one of each and paid less than $200 for the pair.


EDIT: FWIW I also don't care for 57s on toms. They do the job in a mix and are serviceable but I think it's great mic on other things and a meh mic on toms.
 
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