problems with bass/sub-bass

[Giganova]

ok, here's my stupid question:

if I record a deep bass or sub-bass, my sequencer will clip easily. I can't turn the volume up otherwise it'll sound muddy and distorted. How can I make basses/sub-basses louder without getting a muddy sound?? All I want is a loud & crispy bass line. Any ideas? Thanxxxxxx as always!

(setup: I record basses/sub-basses with outboard gear, such as the EMU XL-7, directy into Logic, bypassing the mixer's amp)

 

[Bulls Hit]

Have you tried a low cut?

Say 40Hz and below, might clean it up

 

[Giganova]

Thanks, Bulls Hit -- I'll try that out!

 

[invisiblemute]

Believe it or not a lot of that great bass you hear in stuff like drum'n'bass is way above 20Hz. Most systems can't even reproduce frequencies below 100Hz without a huge dip. If what you want is loud and crispy then you are definitely in need of controled mid-bass. Really low bass can't even really be heard just felt.

I would also suggest serious experimentation with using and abusing compression. Disregard much of what you've read about judicious use of compression. A lot of that goes out the window when creating interesting sounds and textures for electronic music. You may very well like over compression that breathes. And a little bit of fuzz and distortion never hurts. It will definitely make things sound more crunchy and crispy

i'm'

 

[Giganova]

Believe it or not a lot of that great bass you hear in stuff like drum'n'bass is way above 20Hz.

I didn't know that (and BTW: I am trying to produce DnB). I'll try to eq some of the low frequencies out and see if it helps.

I would also suggest serious experimentation with using and abusing compression.

Actually, I could improve the sound quality dramatically by fast attack compression with a ratio of 4:1. Thanks again for your help!

 

[KingstonRock]

Believe it or not a lot of that great bass you hear in stuff like drum'n'bass is way above 20Hz. Most systems can't even reproduce frequencies below 100Hz without a huge dip. If what you want is loud and crispy then you are definitely in need of controled mid-bass. Really low bass can't even really be heard just felt.

Yes and no, what you think of as deep bass is probably around 45-60hz, below that is when you start feeling much more than hearing. It depends what kind of system you're talking about, my mackie hr824s are rated at -2.5 db spl at around 35hz, flat down to almost 40hz. In a car with a powerful, well installed subwoofer array, the design is probably built to put out bass down to at least 30 hz probably with a bump at aroun 60hz inherent in the box design. For smaller speakers i would say 80hz is a pretty common drop-off point.

Anyway, if you're hearing mud, look for frequencies between 120hz and 220hz. A low cut is a good idea, and remember to eq subtractively. If you want more 60hz, than take away some 40hz and 80hz leaving a bump at 60Hz instead of boosting 60hz.

 

[invisiblemute]

Kingston, but how many normal music listeners do you know own a pair of HR824s or "a car with a powerful, well installed subwoofer array?" That's my point. Well produced drum'n'bass still has a decent feeling of bass but I guarentee it has significant content far above 40Hz. Even if a speaker technically reproduces 80Hz if it can't do it without a huge rolloff it pretty much gets lost in real life situations when reproducing music. We don't have to argue this point. Giganova, just rip your favorite d'n'b track and do a frequency analysis. I think there are even plug-ins that allow you sample a bit of audio to model a complex set of filters to make your track sound more like what was sampled. Never used it but saw an interesting demo at GC years ago. Was very impressive on individually tracked vocals. But I see no reason why it couldn't be used on basslines.

Great suggestion on EQing, Kingston. I totally agree. It's very easy to make a big, smeary audio mess if you start boosting bass in order to get more bass. Cutting gives you more room to move and more control over how things sit. And if you have sweepable mids play around with that to fine tune the bass.

i'm'

 

[Giganova]

thats all excelent suggestions! I'll try it out tonight and let you know what the results are. The idea with "subtractive eq" sounds cool. I never thought about it.