Problems recording acoustic & vocals at the same time

[lo beam]

I'm trying to record acoustic guitar & vocals at the same time. I've got an improvised vocal booth in the shape of a wardrobe damped down with pillows, towels & a duvet thrown over the front. The sound from the vocal mic ( a large dia condenser) is great, but I'm having problems with the guitar mic ( ADK SC-1, a wide cardioid small dia condenser) - it's picking up too much of the vocals - amplified by the wardrobe cabinet - and making the composite vocal sound boxy & unpleasant. My options are: rig some sort of baffle up to separate the 2 mics - I was thinking of a kind of *shelf* just below my neck. Record the vocals & guitar separately - not really an option as I can't get the vibe right this way. Get a guitar mic that doesn't pick up so much of the surrounding sound- any recommendations here would be helpful. Any other ideas about this would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Outlaws]

congrats,

You stumbled into the never ending search..................

 

[j0s1ah]

certain mics you can set to pick up direct (infront), omni, 3/4, ect.
theres my 1/2 cents

 

[Dr.Grace]

Here are two ideas:

1. (recommended to me by Lynn Fuston) use a figure-of-eight mic for the guitar, with the vocal in the null position of the mic;

2. (from Harvey Gerst recently in his forum on RecPit) Use one mic (i.e. mono) to record BOTH guitar and vocal, positioning it to get the right balance. Then add a mic close to the guitar, positioning it to add whatever is missing from the other mic, and in the mix just add a little of this track, panned to taste.

Sorry, I haven't tried either of these yet myself.

Don

 

[lo beam]

Cheers for the input guys.
I'm thinking that the SC-1 has too much of a wide pattern for this sort of thing - any other mic suggestions? I really like the ADK range, and was eyeing up their A-51 SC which looks exactly like the MXL603s or.....
I dunno - something that excels at close miking without picking up stuff from the sides & back.
Thanks!

 

[lo beam]

What about a 57 on the acoustic - through a preamp ?

 

[sloop]

I think the room is the problem

Since you aren't doing just vocals or guitar, you need to find a larger space. I don't think you will be able to track the guitar without picking up quite a bit of the vocals in a wardrobe. The sound, even with dampening materials is going to bounce around too much. Try moving the person out into a room I think you will have better luck.

 

[chessrock]

F&%$ the vibe.

Track 'em separate. Be a man, and not a wuss.

 

[Track Rat]

When I find myself in this situation, I use one Large Diaphram Condensor mic for all. It works for me.

 

[the dude]

yeah track em separate if you are having problems. Just imagine yourself singing the vox while you play and then when you DO lay vox, you can concentrate and get an even better vibe!

I have done this with a LD condensor on vox and a 57 on guit. it works well. the 57 wont pick up much vox if any. The LD cond., WILL pick up lots of guit. though. later the dude

 

[lo beam]

Thanks for the suggestions. I've tried doing em separately, but it don't work for me. Yeah, it's all in time & correct - and it makes life easier - but it sounds all wrong. I start overdoing the singing, doing things I'd never normally do, and overcomplicating the guitar parts.
The vibe is king in my book - that's the whole point.
My crazy shelf idea's worked a treat though. Two sofa cushions placed lengthways at the back of the wardrobe , piece of cardboard slotted in the middle where they meet - cut out to accomodate the stand -, and some polystyrene panels stuck on top of the shelf.
It doesn't eliminate the bleed, but it works better than I'd ever have thought.

 

[chessrock]

The vibe is king in my book - that's the whole point.

It's all in your head, dude. Your guitar is a crutch. Learn to walk without the crutches, and you will be a real performer.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Whatever works for you, guy. Let us know if you stumble upon something that works well for you.

 

[the dude]

yeah, really, just dont let yourself overdo the guits and vox parts. have some self control MAN!

 

[lo beam]

It's all in your head, dude. Your guitar is a crutch. Learn to walk without the crutches, and you will be a real performer.

We differ. That's ok - with this bunch of songs ( pretty sparse picking, vocals pitched somewhere between Steve Earle & Nick Drake) I don't wanna *perform*, I wanna sing.
The guitar parts are so intimately wrapped around the singing too, rising & falling with each vocal nuance, that to do it any other way than live feels dishonest & contrived.
Maybe that's not what you're after in your music, I don't know -but it's the only way that works for me. I think with faster, more strummy stuff it might not matter quite so much. I've certainly done separate vox in the past with great results, but it hasn't worked this time.

 

[Han]

Recording vocals and acoustic guitar together is not easy.

Use a condenser mic in figure eight for the geetar, aim the side at the singer's nose.

A figure eight is deaf at the side.

Hope this helps.

 

[mixsit]

...Use a condenser mic in figure eight for the geetar, aim the side at the singer's nose.

A figure eight is deaf at the side.

Hope this helps.

...and since you (Lo Beam) mentioned liking the ADK, I had good luck with the ADK 51-ST in '8' and a Royer 121 doing just that. Also aimed the singer/guitarist into some gobos to kill the back sides of the pickup.
I wish I had gotten into fig-8's and multi pattern mics earlier. Epecially the added tone options in a multi pattern mic.
Good hunting.
Wayne
..add on FWIW, the 51 st also worked real nice in card on the last acc. guitars session we did too.