Normal to Have Low Input Level with SM57 and Scarlett 2i2? (acoustic guitar)

DiodeMcRoy

DiodeMcRoy

New member

Is this normal to have such a low input level with a SM57 and Scarlett 2i2 (acoustic guitar examples bellow)​

So I got this mic with my audio interface, and I need to crank up the input to even get some sound.
Here is some examples I just recorded, two acoustic guitar recordings, one fingerpicked and one strummed

- Fingerpicking :

- Strummed with a pick :


Mic position at around 5 or 7 inch (15/20cm) for the guitar, positionned at fret 12 pointing directly toward the fret
Input level on the 2i2 at 100% for both recordings

The levels I managed to get with no processing or normalisation

- Fingerpicking : -24db to -18db with rare peaks at -15db
- Strumming with a pick : -21db to -12db

Also notice a weird electronic noise at the end of the Strummed recording.
Is there something wrong here? That seems low. And even for vocals I need to put it at 100% to get a good input level.

Thanks!
 
I haven't used an SM57 on an acoustic for awhile, but it's odd you'd have to pin the gain on the preamp.

I notice the Scarlett has an 'auto' gain feature, have you tried disengaging it? Tried another XLR mic cable?

As well, the Scarlett is supposed to deliver 68dB of gain, which is a fair bit, and the SM57 needs 56dB (according to a quick google).

EL
 
I use a scarlette with dynamics and generally i have to crank the gain near 100%. What gen is the FR? I think the newer ones have more gain (65 where as the old ones were like 57 db). Also check your FR software to make sure the gain in there is correct. It shouldn't be as low as yours, but yeah, it is pretty low.
 
Per Shure SM 57 on acoustic guitar should be less than 6 inches or so. l actually like to put a 57 a couple inches from the strings at about the fourth fret pointed at the upper bout.
 
Well, if that was full gain, then the scarlet preamp is pretty noise free. I hear a hum in both recordings. In fairness, 57s are not high output mics and distance does make the output even lower. They of course earn their money on snare drums and guitar cabs, so you wouldn;t want them to distort, so gain is moderate.
 
Nola said:
I use a scarlette with dynamics and generally i have to crank the gain near 100%. What gen is the FR? I think the newer ones have more gain (65 where as the old ones were like 57 db). Also check your FR software to make sure the gain in there is correct. It shouldn't be as low as yours, but yeah, it is pretty low.
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It's a 3rd generation. I just checked and the gain range of this interface is 56db. And according to some sites the minimal gain needed for the sm57 is 56db.
 
Eric Malone said:
I haven't used an SM57 on an acoustic for awhile, but it's odd you'd have to pin the gain on the preamp.

I notice the Scarlett has an 'auto' gain feature, have you tried disengaging it? Tried another XLR mic cable?

As well, the Scarlett is supposed to deliver 68dB of gain, which is a fair bit, and the SM57 needs 56dB (according to a quick google).

EL
Click to expand...
My Scarlett is older and doesn't have the Auto feature. The one I have deliver 56db (it's the 3rd gen).

Maybe I'll try another XLR cable, I actually bought a stand with the cable included so that might not be the best quality. I don't think there's a problem with the SM57 as I bought it on a reliable seller (thomann) and it's known to be quite solid gear.
 
DiodeMcRoy said:
It's a 3rd generation. I just checked and the gain range of this interface is 56db. And according to some sites the minimal gain needed for the sm57 is 56db.
Click to expand...
This is what I started to say and then deleted in my previous post. After Googling this issue I see the lot of people have reported the same thing. That suggests that that interface just doesn't have enough umph for that mic.
 
PorterhouseMusic said:
This is what I started to say and then deleted in my previous post. After Googling this issue I see the lot of people have reported the same thing. That suggests that that interface just doesn't have enough for that mic.
Click to expand...
Well if there's 56db needed and that's exactly what the focusrite provide, shouldn't it be ok? I maybe this mean that that the minimal needed to that's normal you have to put it to the max?

So in my case, this could mean my gear is not faulty and this would be the normal limitations of my stuff?
 
Also I wanna add that when I plug instruments with the jack the gain is perfectly fine, it's usually turned at around 40% I'd say
 
DiodeMcRoy said:
Well if there's 56db needed and that's exactly what the focusrite provide, shouldn't it be ok? I maybe this mean that that the minimal needed to that's normal you have to put it to the max?

So in my case, this could mean my gear is not faulty and this would be the normal limitations of my stuff?
Click to expand...
I can't be sure - but it's possible that it's enough - but just barely and only under ideal conditions. Like if you hold the mic right up close to your mouth and speak clearly into it - there's more than enough gain. I assume. But once you pull it back 6-10" from the guitar and play at a moderate volume like you did in the clips above - it's just barely getting you there.

You might want to try a different placement and orientation. Like maybe super close to the lower bout but pointed toward the sound hole.

I've recorded a lot of acoustic guitars over the years - but I admit... never used a dynamic. Always an LDC.
 
I use 545s which were SM57 predecessors and they're fine with the 1st gen FR I am using. I do have to crank it to near max, but the signal to noise is pretty much fine and it sounds louder than what you're getting...I'd start to considering asking the vendor about this and maybe reporting it as defective (this is probably rare but does happen because FR have refurbished units on their site for sale).
 
Nola said:
I use 545s which were SM57 predecessors and they're fine with the 1st gen FR I am using. I do have to crank it to near max, but the signal to noise is pretty much fine and it sounds louder than what you're getting...I'd start to considering asking the vendor about this and maybe reporting it as defective (this is probably rare but does happen because FR have refurbished units on their site for sale).
Click to expand...
Well I bought the FR years ago and it was fine with the instruments plugged in with a jack until then.
 
Might be time to try a different mic. You can get some really decent condensers for not much more than that 57. Like the CAD M179. It will likely solve your gain problems, but condensers are sensitive, so be ready for that.
 
TimOD said:
Might be time to try a different mic. You can get some really decent condensers for not much more than that 57. Like the CAD M179. It will likely solve your gain problems, but condensers are sensitive, so be ready for that.
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thanks, I think I'll try to stick to the 57 for a while, I plan to process it anway and I'm planning in adding layers etc... The annoying thing will be with compression since it brings the noise up. And my room is not really treated for a condenser, so i guess i'll have to face even more problems when compressing it...? But I'll think about it
 
I don't think there is anything wrong with your mic or interface. As rob aylestone mentioned, they are more common on snares, toms, guitar cabs etc, which is what I use them for.

I've been using a 57 lately, on a 4 x 12 Mesa cab, driven with a 50W Marshall 1987 knockoff, and it is freaking loud. I still have to bring the gain up to about 2:00 on the preamp.

I've just never recorded quiet (relatively) sound sources like an acoustic with an SM57 as I will usually choose a condenser.

Even with the gain pinned, if the noise isn't horrible, I wouldn't worry about it. I think you are operating within the parameters of your gear. I can verify if you like. I can plug an SM57 into a preamp with 65dB (API 512C) of gain, and record an acoustic. The knob should be at about 3:00 to 4:00 for a decent level (-6 to -3dB) is my prediction.

I wouldn't let room treatment steer you away from a condenser mic. Condenser mics are much more sensitive then dynamics, for sure, but they do capture quiet sources better. You can get a pretty good condenser for under a $100 these days (or $10,000, depending on your budget). At the end of the day though, it's what works best for you and the track. If the SM57 does the job, stick with it.

I'm not sure what your concerns are regarding compression.

Here's a video you might enjoy:



EL
 
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