Pres vs A/D ISA 428 vs Apogee

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Marlmanch

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Hi, i'm looking for some advice about whether to upgrade my AD coverters first or my mic pres. I know this is quite a subjective question, but any oppinions would be greatly appreciated.

At the moment im using the converters in my 002R and the best sounding pres i have are in my Twin Q.

I cant decide whether upgrading my pres to say an ISA 428 or my A/D to say an Apogee Rossetta 200 would give me the most audible improvement.

Im leaning towards the pres simply because i could do with some extra ones anyways, whether they're a sygnificant improvement over what i have or not.... But i suspect the Apogee may give me a more noticable improvement in quality so i just dont know!

Many thanks,

Mark
 
Wow, that's a tough one. Have you considered the MiniMe? It has Apogee A/D as well as two good clean pres and a pretty good limiter (according to Fletcher).
 
Hi, thanks very much for your posts.... I was looking at the mini me as an option, and its in the running from an AD point of view but id still be short of the pres i need. As for the digital option on the 428, im not sure how much of a step up from the 002 converters that is?

I suppose looking at both of those options, im still left with the question of which first!! Great AD with useable pres or great pres with useable AD?!
 
Why can't you do both? Budget? Consider which will obviously create a better recording for you...my knowledge says pres make a bigger difference (especially from the Joe Meek to the Focusrite). But the apogee unit would be beneficial as well... Obviously both would be best.

Jacob
 
Hi Jacob, thanks for your post. Yes, course, in an ideal world id love to stick the two on my credit card but i suspect might end up girlfriend-less and living in a box lol. I'll have to save a little longer for the second so im just asking which first i suppose... it could be six months before i get the other.
I was leaning towards the pres first myself, i just want to make sure for the next six months i have the most pleasure for my money!

Many thanks, Mark
 
The Pre's are more worth it...but that's my opinion... I asked a similar question about converters earlier, and someone said that while the upgrade is good to do, pres are way more important initially.

Jacob
 
Hey, many thanks. Your oppinions most appreciated, cheers! Its always nice when advice comes that backs up your own views instead of throwing you into more doubt! ....thats not to put off anyone that wants to suggest otherwise!

Mark.
 
I started out recording with a Vintech 1272 so I never got the chance to record without it. Now that I have it, I have no reason not to use it.

However, when I bought 4 channels of Mytek AD96 converters it was a definite upgrade in clarity. Buddies of mine noticed the difference even on computer speakers.


I own a Presonus M80 also. I've done a few live projects and I don't notice a drop in quality when I only get to use the Vintech 1272 on say snare drum and bass guitar. I don't feel like my guitars suffer when they go through the M80 in most cases.

This is only my perception of my experieces. It in no way reflects your situation at all.

Brandon
 
Hi Brandon, the more oppinions the better! Thanks very much. Im sure in reality there will be an audible improvement upgrading either the AD or pres, and maybe asking people to choose one or the other is a subjective question... its always nice to get peoples views before you sink the cash into it though!


Thanks again, Mark
 
Well i decided to upgrade my pres first... and started with the 428 that im more than happy with. As most of us gear fiends tend to do i ran a fairly comprehensive AB test over numberous different tracks between all the pres i currently own. For me the 428 serves exactly as id hoped as a great quality utility pre. In the future im looking maybe towards API or Great river to add to the palette.

Now i was wondering if anyone could help me with my next purchase. I was hoping to sort out the AD converstion side of things next and have a couple of questions.

If for the sake of arguement i upgraded to a 2 channel converter (apogee, mytek whatever), clocked the 002 to it then tracked drums with say the overheads through the new converter and the other mics straight through the 002, am i going to encounter any bizzare latency issues etc or does the clocking take care of that? Bit of a naieve question maybe but im not quite sure.

Obviously an eight channel converter might be a better idea but its going to cost me a fair bit more and restrict me to 44k via lightpipe. (not that i usually go for 96 anyways but id kind of like the choice).

I suppose there's an arguement there that what i'd gain with the improved conversion quality of the other 6 drum tracks would out way dropping to 44k anyways.

And one more thing, has anyone got any wisdom about how the ISA digital option shapes up against other ADs? I suppose theres another choice there.

Many thanks, Mark
 
I have been looking at upgrading to the 428 at some point.
How do they sound different compared to what you were using before? Are the very colored?
Any general info regarding your initial impression of the 428 would be greatly appreciated!
 
Hi Amra,

I'm by no means the worlds authority on pres, but i'll gladly tell you what my ears tell me about the 428!

Previously my pres were Joe Meek twin Q pres, the 002 rack pres and a behringer desk if i was despirate to track more simultaniously. (This was to be avoided at all costs!). I wanted to get started with as many pro sounding pres as possible and the 428 seemed right for my budget.

If, like me, you've already read all the posts you can find about the 428, you'll know peoples' general oppinion.... basically that they're very good pres but not astonishing. After using them for a while I can see what they mean, but dont let this discourage you.

I ran numberous tests with various mics and sources when i first got the 428. I also recorded a section of vocal, then stacked it up by copying it across say 10/15 tracks. (Doing this helps bring out the differences between one pre and another, in a similar way that recording a whole song with one pre or another does). As a generalisation this is what i heard...

The Behringer pres are undoubtably just terrible... i have nothing else to say about these! Muddy, offensive and unpleasant.

The 002 rack pres certainly seemed useable to me for a while, but in comparison to the 428, these suddenly sound very cheap indeed. Again, generally clouded all round.

The Joe Meek pres came out pretty well... certainly useable. To my ears there's a slight cloudy low mid / high bottom thing going on and maybe a slight sibilant kind of emphasis right at the top.

Now the 428 remained clear and even, sounds musical, quite smooth and just all out more professional. The point here really is that until you hear a good pre, you dont hear the short comings of your cheap ones! I'm sure if you gave me one of these fern valve $6000 sinlgle pres my 428 may not sound so wonderful!

To say what colouring does the pre have... well i find it hard to put colours into words really, (and the impedance settings do eeek slightly different results from most mics, higher settings being brighter) suffice to say its definately not a heavily coloured pre but not clean to the point of being sterile. Just nice as an all round first step on the pro ladder pre.

If more of a coloured sound is what youre looking for you may want to look at API or Great River... although you are looking at a bit more money. Way up if you need the 4 pres or not. If i only needed 2, id probably have gone for something else but im more than happy with my 428. Now i have a base of 4 great pres its a pair of Great river next for me! lol. Hope this is of some help.
 
I appreciate your sharing your first hand impressions on it - and i know exactly what you are talking about regarding getting better gear and how it exposes your weaker gear. I experienced the same thing when I first got studio monitors - then I heard exactly how crappy all my recordings really sounded...lol.

So the gist of what you are saying is pretty much inline with what I have been hearing - you are not going to make a recording with the ISA 428 and go "oooohhhh, it sounds so so nice!". BUT, you will notice an overall improvement of the quality of your summed tracks...

Entry level for something that makes you go "oooooh, that sounds nice!" seems to be the great river 2 channel pre or something along those lines.

Thanks for sharing your first hand info! It really is useful to add together as many first hand impressions and opinions and see which things appear consistently, throughout.

Again, thanks!
 
I could still do with a little help if there's anyone in the know!

Im still pondering over the below... can anyone help?!

'Im looking into a 2 channel AD for my 002r like the mini me, mytek or whatever so i can still track at 96k if i want, but get better conversion quality on the two channels plus 'possibly' improve the 002s AD (or at least maybe move the audible articfacts it incurs away from the audible range blah blah). Mainly for when im tracking drums to also make use of the extra spdif inputs.

Alternatively, i could go for the 428 eight channel converter for my pres, but it will restrict me to 44k via lightpipe. (not that i usually go for 96 anyways but id kind of like the choice and stay a little future proof!). I dont know how much of an improvement over the 002 ADCs it would be either although i hear its the same as the 192 HD converters.

Is there an arguement that what i'd gain with the improved conversion quality of the other 6 drum tracks would out way dropping to 44k anyways? (As apposed to a 2 channel converter that would still leave up to 8 of my 10 inputs on the 002 ADC)

And one more thing, has anyone got any wisdom about how the ISA digital option shapes up against other ADs?

Any oppinions on any of this would be greatly appreciated! , Mark
 
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