Please come here if you have good advice on what i should buy...

  • Thread starter Thread starter CloseYourEyes
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1. sm57 $80 (Snare, Amp, Vocals)
2. (2)ECM8000 $80 (acoustic guitar, Drum OH's)
3. Studio Projects C1 $200 (vocals, guitar)
4. Beta 52 $189 (kick drum, bass amp)
5 Samson R21 Microphone Package $50 (they are pretty decent for micing toms, snare)
6. Monitors $300-700
7. Makie 1402-VLZ $499
8. Sonar 2 $300
9. (2)RNC compressor $320
10. sound card $250
11. VTB-1 MicPreamp $180
12. Cabling, wiring, stands and such $300

all this equals about $3150 and would give you a pretty good start leaving you a bit of money for plug-ins, more outboard gear and acoustics.
 
Originally posted by cominginsecond ]Michael,

Is there any reason not to compare those things?
None at all, you can compare them 'till the cows come home, but suggesting that a $179 compressor is going to hold its own with a $30,000 compressor is a bit silly.
I'm not saying a Rode NTK is just as good as a Neumann. What I am saying is that you can use both to achieve "professional" results.
I think the NTK could give you acceptable results, but I've yet to hear a sound clip using one that I'd call pro.
In addition, your last comment seems to suggest that I think good, experienced ears don't matter. I'd like you to show me where I said that
You didn't say that. At all. That's why I brought it up.

There is nothing in the setup I described that would prevent you from getting a brilliant mix (assuming you wire it all up with quality cable).
Nothing? Well, I noticed your set up included a myriad of plug-ins. Nothing against plug-ins, some sound better than others, but equating plug-ins to quality outboard gear is like equating a digital piano to a concert grand. The digital might come close, but it's not the real thing. Nor does it sound nearly as good.
I also noticed you have one "vocal" mic suggested. Do you REALLY think this one size is going to fit all? It might work well on some voices, but it isn't going to cover everyone. Are you going to use that same mic on every song? That'll get old quick.
It may be a little easier to get a brilliant mix in the million dollar studio, but it does not negate the possibilities of the $6500 studio.
Nope, it does not negate the possibilities. As I said, you put together a VERY respectable system, but would I consider it pro level? Not really. A great start mind you, but "pro" level?
The prevailing sentiment on this message board that I disagree with is that it is impossible to get a "professional" sound for less that 100 grand. [/B]
That simply isn't true! Harvey has shown many of us how to get the most out of our "pro-sumer" level gear, and he makes a living doing it as well.
Again. nothing against what you have put together. It's a fine set-up. But there are some holes in trying to call it a "professional level" set-up. For instance:
Your mic locker is very thin! One LD condensor, and you're ready to go pro? No Omnis? No ribbons? No LD Dynamics?
You're light on pre's. One decent Avalon. I don't know the Soundcraft pre's, they might suffice for a demo, but again professional level?
Cakewalk Sonar? I've used cakewalk, I wouldn't consider it top notch.
Also, you have absolutely NO instruments on your list. Is the band supposed to bring their own? Many do , and thats OK but what about the drummer? What are you going to do when he drags in an old, un-tuned set with beat up heads that sound like crap? You're going to deliver a pro sound with those?
Where are you going to record this "band" at? In your bedroom studio? Track and mix in the same room? If you want to be considered pro, you'll need proper facilities. Everyone huddled around the Event 20/20's is going to be very frustrating! Not to mention crowded.

No one here is saying that you can't achieve very good to even excellent results with what you have listed. But running a professional level recording studio takes more than a few mics, one pre, and a cheap Soundcraft board set up in a spare bedroom.
You're offering a service, and trying to build a client base by doing so. If you want to compete in that market you'll need something besides price point to do it effectively.
 
None at all, you can compare them 'till the cows come home, but suggesting that a $179 compressor is going to hold its own with a $30,000 compressor is a bit silly.
What's even more silly is comparing an RNC to a Fairchild at all. It's apples and oranges. One is a very clean compressor and one is valued for its color. People don't spend $30,000 on a Fairchild because it's the cleanest compressor available, they do so because they love what it does to the signal. Saying that an RNC does not "hold its own" against a Fairchild is like saying "Mustangs don't hold their own against Lincoln Continentals." And yes, I know that I'm contradicting what I said in my last post.
I think the NTK could give you acceptable results, but I've yet to hear a sound clip using one that I'd call pro.
And you are obviously entitled to your opinion, but I have used u67s, and the NTK is as good in its own way, in my opinion, as the u67 is. Bruce Richardson on prorec.com feels similarly: "They sound fantastic. Startlingly fantastic, perhaps as good as any mic in the world. Certainly as good as any mic I have ever used, and yes that includes the obvious."
Nothing against plug-ins, some sound better than others, but equating plug-ins to quality outboard gear is like equating a digital piano to a concert grand. The digital might come close, but it's not the real thing. Nor does it sound nearly as good.
This may be a valid comparison. However, I never claimed that plug-ins were superior to outboard gear, just that "professional results" could be achieved using them. This fact is clearly established by the hundreds of professional engineers who use plug-ins every day on major label recordings. And as far as the Waves Renaissance package is concerned, it is aclaimed by several different sources as the best EQ, verb, and compressor that Waves makes.
Nope, it does not negate the possibilities. As I said, you put together a VERY respectable system, but would I consider it pro level? Not really. A great start mind you, but "pro" level?
I agree with you here. A $6500 studio is not a "pro" studio in the same sense that Abbey Road is, and I never claimed that it was. What I claimed is that you could achieve "pro results."
Your mic locker is very thin! One LD condensor, and you're ready to go pro? No Omnis? No ribbons? No LD Dynamics?
Tyler stated that he was recording metal core and punk rock. Why would you need omnis, ribbons, or LD dynamics if you're only recording those two types of music?
I don't know the Soundcraft pre's, they might suffice for a demo, but again professional level?
A few of the hit track on Craig David's record were recorded using a Mackie VLZ mixer. The pres on the Soundcraft are superior to the Mackie. To me, this shows that pro results can be acheived using these pres.
Cakewalk Sonar? I've used cakewalk, I wouldn't consider it top notch.
Have you used Sonar? It's drastically different from the Pro Audio line. Many pros use it. I've used Cubase, Nuendo, Pro Tools LE, and Samplitude, and I prefer Sonar to all of them.

More importantly, is using Sonar going to keep a good engineer from achieving professional results? No way.

Where are you going to record this "band" at? In your bedroom studio? Track and mix in the same room? If you want to be considered pro, you'll need proper facilities. Everyone huddled around the Event 20/20's is going to be very frustrating! Not to mention crowded.
I agree. In the post immediately following my initial description of the $6500 studio, I mention that I feel he would have to add at least $20,000 to the total if he didn't have a decent tracking room.

Again, I want to reiterate that I don't believe $6500 will get you would could be called a "professional recording facility," only that, in the right hands, it can get you "professional results".
 
I think we can continue to agree to disagree.
I have used Sonar, as well as SAW, Cubase SX, and Nuendo.
Nuendo continues to be my Audio S/W of choice. (though I wish they'd support a Pro level controller!)

I will however, reiterate, that it takes more than a few mikes, one good pre, and a set of nearfields to compete in this market. Remember, you are trying to compete with studios that have a lot more experience, and tons of more equipment than you do!

Even if you could get something up and running, and begin to build a client base on your "system", it's still a business, and has to be treated like one.

A proper business plan should be developed, market forecasts should be established, and goals set for the long term opperation of that business. As well as methods for acheiving those goals.

Follow that up with dilligent hard work on a daily basis, get out and market your services all the time, continue to reinvest the profits back into the business, and maybe, just maybe, you'll make a small living doing it. :)
~Cheers~
 
I will however, reiterate, that it takes more than a few mikes, one good pre, and a set of nearfields to compete in this market. Remember, you are trying to compete with studios that have a lot more experience, and tons of more equipment than you do!
Yeah good point. I may not have been addressing Tyler's original question. I just ran with his budget and tried to think of how a person could get a "pro sound" for their own recordings. I wasn't really thinking of trying to make his studio compete with pro facilities. With the $6500 setup, he would have to be a damn good engineer to gain any sort of competitive edge. Obviously, at this point, he's not. That's why I suggested he charge a minimal fee until his skills improve.
 
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