Flangerhans, that was an excellent explaination!
Thank you!
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That kinda blows my fire, as I was originally gonna open with...
I've seen track-bouncing from Jesus to Paul!
I'm sorry, I probably don't know exactly what that means, but I was on a John Lennon jag for a moment.
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Okay, I'll agree with e'thing Flangerhans said, right at the outset. It's very concise and offers truth. Here's more from my side:
The "full collapse" or any "collapse" bounce should be taken for granted that the sound will deteriorate, somewhat. It's all a matter of degree. There is no such thing as a lossless bounce. Even in digi-m-al, but that's probably another post.
So, the dreamey-eyed ideal of "10 (layers or virtual) tracks packed onto 4-tracks thru bouncing technique",...
is not as good as it sounds on paper! Sometimes it can destroy a mix!
With that being stated, bouncing is a useful tool in the studio to boost your production value, plain & simple, and it can be done with satisfactory results if you're
really-really careful!
What I find useful and most tasteful are such things as:
~recording harmony vocals & bouncing them down to one track,
~recording harmonizing leads & bouncing them down to one track,
~bouncing a (light) percussion track in behind a lead or BG vocal.
~bouncing a BG vocal in behind a lead vocal.
Otherwise, what Flangerhans has stated is a good rule of thumb. You may bounce any two elements that don't tend to step on each other's frequencies, and you should be alright.
You may bounce your 4-track mix to another multitracker, but they should both be similarly equipped and high end.
A lot of folks will bounce an entire stereo mix to their 'puter in wav format, then burn an audio CD and record it back down to their priimary multitracker for 2 more tracks of overdubs, and generational loss is practically nil in this method, which is commonly known as the "external" bounce, which is quite different and offers better flexibility than the "internal" or "collapse" bounce.
The major advantages of external vs. internal/collapse bounce, is that with external bouncing: a) your primary tracks are not destroyed b) you may go back and remix the bounce later, and c) sound quality is certainly much better, in general, than with an "internal/collapse" bounce. [EDIT] d) you preserve the stereo image in the bounce, e) you may even add another "live" part to the stereo mixdown stage, so that boosts (track) count again! [/EDIT] Try it!
A "collapse" bounce in it's purest form (for a 4-tracker) would be:
Record Tracks 1, 2 & 3 and bounce them to track 4, while adding a new part. [4]
Record Tracks 1, 2 & and bounce them to track 3, while adding a new part. [3]
Record Track 1 and bounce it to track 2, while adding a new part. [2]
Record Track 1 as your final track, and it's soup!
That's 10 "virtual" tracks packed into 4-tracks thru the use of the internal/collapse bounce. It's done internally thru the Portastudio's mixer, and it collapses the audio by virtue of actually recording over the primary tracks, over and over, 'til what you're left with is all tracks of a bounced quality, less one. However, the adding of a "new" part (live and not off tape) during the bounce is somehow a saving factor in many cases to the overall quality of the track. It follows that you'd then want to use your most important part in the live-to-tape element of the bounce! [Planning! Planning! Planning!]
No doubt, it's always better to try to bounce lesser parts, less important parts in behind more important parts. You don't want two bounced sounds to compete, 'cause that would turn to mush in a hurry.
I'd also recommend saving your most important parts for the end, when the last track gets recorded without an accompanying bounce, just as a 1st generation primary track. Unfortuanately, due to the structure of this method, that is always the last track, so plenty of planning and forethought has to go into the sequence of layered and bounced tracks, to then get your most important part to cap it all off on the very last track. Sounds simple, huh?
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I tend to use bouncing lightly, or with coincidental items that don't clash, as well as the disparate sounding items that don't clash with each other sonically. I much favor a one-generation "light" bounce of a taped background part with a more pronounced lead part. When you get to the point of bouncing 3 or 4 tracks together, things can get very compressed. If you don't mind your mixes sounding compressed and wall-of-soundish, as well as treading the danger zone of hiss awareness,... then radical bouncing is for you!
Nonetheless,... depending on how well you mix and match each track as you build your composition, [including setting levels, EQ, etc.], bouncing can actually be a good thing and not a disaster, but practically a godsend! It's all in the mix!
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Having said this much, if you've followed me anyway,...
I'll state that bouncing is something I'd rather not do if I don't have to do it, but used em,... searching for word,...
lightly, carefully, with forethought and planning it can be fine. You can't always tell if/when someone's done a bounce, if it's done right.
Okay, so if I'd rather not do bouncing, what's the alternative? Scope a larger number of tracks for your production. That's another post on buying gear, but someone on a budget who likes Portasudios and needs more tracks might want to look at the 488mkII. Okay, I said that's another post, but I'd bet my last dollar that any production would sound better produced in 8-discrete tracks on the 488mkII, than anything you could do similarly with bouncing techniques that added up to 8 parts on your 4-track. The value of buying up is there, though not always "expensive", it is a financial committment.
What's my other alternative to bouncing? Something commonly known as
packing the tracks!
In a nutshell, it's a technique of grouping as many parts,...
live-down-to-tape as possible, in a single live take of any track. Like, for instance, if you can play bass and sing backup parts simultaneously, do it! If you can do hand percussion while you sing lead, do it! If you and your girlfriend can harmonize together, do it! If you can play any instrumental or vocal part live in a band situation, do it! Pack the tracks right at the outset, and avoid bouncing! This, my friends, is a helluva better way to boost production value, and it's a real boost, it's not a second or third generation conglomeration of goop. It's a live track and it sounds that way. The downfall of many bounced tracks would be that they sound bounced. 'Nuff said.
OKAY, so if you'd like to know, I do have "sound samples" of what I've just described, above. The "internal" bounce, the "external" bounce", the "light bounce",
the crappy bounce and the successful bounce, as well as plenty of tracks with no-bounce, and believe me, you can hear the difference! What I mean is, the types of things I've described, ideas on recording that are thrown around audio forums like this so often,... it puts in contrast the actual sonic value of a technique
when it's actually heard.
The Track Bounce (is slightly overrated but is a good tool if used right).
The bottom line question is whether you want me to post specific examples of bounce/no-bounce combinations with simple setup explanations? I don't want to bore you to death! It's referencing my own home recordings. I'll warn'ya,... the reality of it is sometimes not pretty!
ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Again!
