Ok, I changed my mind...

[TheGuitarMan]

So what you want is something that looks like the real thing, although it isn't, plus you want an imaginary neck thru design that didn't happen with the real thing, which would also make it not the real thing......

And, whatever it is you want, you don't want it to be a Gibson product, even though the real thing was a Gibson product.....


Ok, I get it now......there's your world and then there's everybody else's world......

Makes perfect sense to me....you must either be a lead singer or a drummer........gibs

Well, if the original design was neck thru...wouldn't that make the Gibson SG not "the real thing"? If i'm wrong, please define "the real thing" for me.

And I am a lead singer you ASS. Maybe I should have made myself more clear.

Ok, i'm looking for a guitar which has a double cut body style similar to the Gibson SG, Neck thru would be a plus.

Thanks to those of you who actually recommended guitars like I asked without being total asses.

 

[TheGuitarMan]

And you wanna pay less than 200 bucks too, I would imagine.

www.alembic.com

These guys can build you a DC solidbody with neck-through-body construction.

I seriously doubt that the original SG was designed neck-through-body. The SG came out well after the Les Paul did and by that time Gibson had their shit down as far as construction is concerned. The ORIGINAL electric guitar that Les Paul designed had no body at all. If I recall it was called the Log. It was a neck with pickups.

Good call on the "lead singer" bit.

Yeah, they did have their shit down and the set neck was cheaper anyway. A little design change and it was ready for production.

I don't really need it to be under 200 bucks, maybe around 400.

 

[foo]

If the set neck was much more cost effective, why didn''t they make the Firebird that way?

I don't know where you get your information - mine comes from Ted McCarty, the General Manager of Gibson at the time, who seems to be saying that the neck-through is more cost effective.

He is quoted in Andre Duchossoirs book "Gibson Electrics - The Classic Years" (Pg 103, Para 6) talking about the Firebird introduction as follows:

". . . So we decided to use the neck again taking the basic idea from the 335, the semi-solid which had a big block of wood. OK? This one had its neck running all the way through and we just glued the wings on it. You didn't need such a big peice of wood, you needed a long one. But getting a long board is no problem, getting a thick and very wide one takes a big tree . . ."

Now if they already had the neck-through with the 335 in 1958, they already had that design when they were redesigning the Les Paul to go to the SG shape - and if getting a long board is no problem versus getting 'a big tree', the big tree is going to be more expensive - and it's the big tree that they had to find to make the SGs

Where are you getting your information? I'm interested as I have a great interest in vintage guitars, and perhaps you have a resource I haven't heard about?

foo

 

[TheGuitarMan]

If the set neck was much more cost effective, why didn''t they make the Firebird that way?

I don't know where you get your information - mine comes from Ted McCarty, the General Manager of Gibson at the time, who seems to be saying that the neck-through is more cost effective.

He is quoted in Andre Duchossoirs book "Gibson Electrics - The Classic Years" (Pg 103, Para 6) talking about the Firebird introduction as follows:

". . . So we decided to use the neck again taking the basic idea from the 335, the semi-solid which had a big block of wood. OK? This one had its neck running all the way through and we just glued the wings on it. You didn't need such a big peice of wood, you needed a long one. But getting a long board is no problem, getting a thick and very wide one takes a big tree . . ."

Now if they already had the neck-through with the 335 in 1958, they already had that design when they were redesigning the Les Paul to go to the SG shape - and if getting a long board is no problem versus getting 'a big tree', the big tree is going to be more expensive - and it's the big tree that they had to find to make the SGs

Where are you getting your information? I'm interested as I have a great interest in vintage guitars, and perhaps you have a resource I haven't heard about?

foo

Guess I was wrong about the price. Hmmm, if neck thru is cheaper, sounds better and sustains better...

Don't some SG's have bookmatched bodies? You wouldn't need a big tree then. Trees are sold in board feet. So no matter how big the tree is, the price per board foot is the same.

I don't get it. The boys at Gibson must be smoking crack or somethin.

BTW I got my info from Ed Roman.

 

[gibs]

Ed Roman is a fucking tool .........

But of course, I'm one of the asses that tried to reply to your thread in good faith, guitarboy ......how 'bout a little apology, sweetie?.....gibs

 

[foo]

I've only seen one article by Ed Roman - and I have to say it seemed to me at the time that he stated his opinion as fact. So I don't know how knowledgeable he is.

My background is that I ran the guitar department of a very large store in South London for two years and then bought, traded and sold (hundreds of) vintage guitars for five years in the US. I dealt with Gruhn's in Nashville and Mandolin Brothers in New York and most of what I know I learned from Dan Mills (who was the Gruhn's manager).

I only got taken once in all that time and that was on a Tele body that had been refinished. It wasn't the refin (which was easy to spot), it was a Warmoth body with real Fender hardware and a real Fender neck.

Bookmatching is a technique that's generally used with good quality wood with nice figuring and a 'see-through' finsih to display the beauty of the wood. Regular mahogany isn't usually thought of as being particularly noteworthy (like for e.g. flame maple or quilted mahogany)[although I love the way the mahogany looks on my '61 Les Paul Special ] so I don't think bookmatching would necessarily have been high on their list of priorities for those guitars in that era. They just cut them from a solid chunk of mahogany and sprayed them. I think they did actually glue some together, but they wouldn't necessarily have been bookmatched. They may have made up bodies from different sized pieces of wood and sometimes 2-piece and sometimes 3.

I was in GC the other day and they had a beautiful SG that actually looked more like a PRS with the whole 'maple top/orange paint job' thing going on. It looked great.

I don't know about how trees are sold. I only know that the cost of an Adirondack top on a (e.g. Collings) acoustic adds about $1,000 to the cost because it's so rare and difficult to get it wide enough in the quality they require to bookmatch for a top.

foo

 

[VertuGoGo]

samick's "torino" line is a good SG copy. a bit modified from the original shape, but i like it.

samick used to have a truer SG copy. ebay should have a couple of those still.

 

[gibs]

Here's yer ed roman neck thru stuff........ SG style just like you want but can't afford......
http://www.edromanguitars.com/guitar/home_rom.htm

Be sure to check out the rest of the website, including all the rock stars he's blown...er...I mean...been photographed with.....

"Hey, I'll give you this guitar, can I get a pic?"....

And don't miss the "rants" part........you'll become so enlightened you just might disavow Bob Dobbs.....

ed roman....guitar nazi par excellence.......can you say "Salesman" ? ......................gibs

 

[64Firebird]

Here's yer ed roman neck thru stuff........ SG style just like you want but can't afford......
http://www.edromanguitars.com/guitar/home_rom.htm

Be sure to check out the rest of the website, including all the rock stars he's blown...er...I mean...been photographed with.....

"Hey, I'll give you this guitar, can I get a pic?"....

And don't miss the "rants" part........you'll become so enlightened you just might disavow Bob Dobbs.....

ed roman....guitar nazi par excellence.......can you say "Salesman" ? ......................gibs

I've been thinking lately that maybe all those guitars that Ed Roman speaks so highly of are just guitars that he's over stocked with and he wants to unload them at a higher price. What do you think?

 

[TheGuitarMan]

I've been thinking lately that maybe all those guitars that Ed Roman speaks so highly of are just guitars that he's over stocked with and he wants to unload them at a higher price. What do you think?

Eh, I doubt it.

God gibs would you stop being an ass? Please?

You must be a HUGE Gibson fan to hate Ed Roman that much.

 

[jimistone]

you have very high standards and a thin wallett guitarman. the "robben ford" guitars were mentioned earlier....they are from 2 to 4 grand. face it dude, with a $400 budget your not going to get anything worth a damn new (since mex strats are beneath you and gibson SG's are not up to your "neck thru" standards)....used maybe you can get a good guitar. I would suggest looking at guitars within you $400 budget (that will be when you realize that that is a mex stat cheap epi samick sized budget). its either that or used...and 400 is not a "name brand" budget in the used market. don't get me wrong, you can find some great deals on used gibsons and fenders but its usually something that happens to pop up and its "snooze or loose" so you can't really be too picky on the model and such.

its hard to drink champayne on a beer budget...i know, cause thats what i have tried to do throughout my musical career.

 

[64Firebird]

I'm with jimistone on this. Every time somebody makes a suggestion, it's not good enough for you or it costs too much. Maybe you need to broaden your standards some more. I can think of some great players that played POS guitars and amps, Hound Dog Taylor come to mind.

Electric guitars are incredibly versatile and a large part of the way they sound has to do with the way you play them. Most of the guitars I've owned were junk, but every day I'd do something to them to make them play or sound better. It doesn't take too long before you've got a good sounding instrument.

It's not about what you play, it's about how you play it.

 

[TheGuitarMan]

Well, I am looking for a used guitar. I've seen one neck thru SG style guitar for 600 new so I figured I could get one for AROUND 400 bucks. Nothing fancy.

So far, the only guitar I ruled out was the Gibson SG faded. I just don't like em. I wouldn't say the MIM Strat is "below" me. It's a perfectly good entry level guitar. I just don't like most of those either.

I remember somebody brought up EVH in another thread. The thing is, i'm not Van Halen. You give me examples of these guitar gods who played crappy guitars, but i'm not a guitar god. I want to find a guitar that i'm not going to hate in a year. I want to be a better player but a most entry level guitars i've played don't inspire me.

 

[64Firebird]

Buying a great guitar will not make you a great guitar player. But, you can become a great guitar player with any guitar.

 

[jimistone]

i went to a local music store today, to look at a used ibanez tube screamer. they just got in a used "made in japan" '68 reissue strat. its a natural finish and has a very nice grain, finished maple fretboard ( no visible wear on the frets or the fretboard to speak of). its got to be an 80's era guitar..so...someone must have kept it in the closet and played it once in a blue moon. the neck and body are almost matching in wood color. "made in japan" is on the heel of the neck...so its one of the desirable ones. I played it for a few minutes (unplugged) and its a pretty sweet playing guitar...i was impressed. i use a 11 guage E set of strings and i donb't care for 9's (thats what its strung with)...but...the neck is really good and the guitar as a whole just felt right. i played some american strats after playing it and i think it plays a little better. they are asking $395 for it, which i don't see it being there for long (the last "made in japan" strat they had sold in a week....for $395 and that sunbitch was pink!. someone will snap it up pretty soon (that would be me, if i didn't have 2 strats already).

i told them that there was someone online that was looking for a "made in japan" strat and asked if they would ship it. they said they would and it would be $395 plus shipping.

so...there ya go...the guitar you were originally looking for. (within your $400 budget)

 

[TheGuitarMan]

Buying a great guitar will not make you a great guitar player. But, you can become a great guitar player with any guitar.

No, a great guitar doesn't make a great player. For me, if i'm playing a pile of crap guitar, I can't stand playing it. I hate my current guitar. I know there's no way in hell i'll become a great player with that hunk o' junk. It plays like ass and sounds like ass. As soon as I get another guitar i'm getting rid of it. I've considered burning the damn thing. That's how much I hate my guitar. If you're wondering why I bought it in the first place...it was a present.

BTW I played one of the so called Samick "PRS killers" the other day. After playing it, I couldn't figure out what all the fuss was about.

Thanks jimistone but I won't buy a guitar I can't play first. Even if it is the fabled MIJ Strat.

 

[64Firebird]

No, a great guitar doesn't make a great player. For me, if i'm playing a pile of crap guitar, I can't stand playing it. I hate my current guitar. I know there's no way in hell i'll become a great player with that hunk o' junk. It plays like ass and sounds like ass. As soon as I get another guitar i'm getting rid of it. I've considered burning the damn thing. That's how much I hate my guitar. If you're wondering why I bought it in the first place...it was a present.

BTW I played one of the so called Samick "PRS killers" the other day. After playing it, I couldn't figure out what all the fuss was about.

Thanks jimistone but I won't buy a guitar I can't play first. Even if it is the fabled MIJ Strat.

Okay, so what is this POS guitar and how much do you want for it? I'm in the market for a cheap guitar to play slide on.

 

[TheGuitarMan]

Okay, so what is this POS guitar and how much do you want for it? I'm in the market for a cheap guitar to play slide on.

It's a Dean Avalanche (strat copy). I guess $150 but it's not set in stone.

 

[64Firebird]

It's a Dean Avalanche (strat copy). I guess $150 but it's not set in stone.

Which one? There are about 5 Avalanche models. Does it have a rosewood or maple fretboard? Single or double coil pick ups? What color is it? Is it the 7 string model?

 

[TheGuitarMan]

Which one? There are about 5 Avalanche models. Does it have a rosewood or maple fretboard? Single or double coil pick ups? What color is it? Is it the 7 string model?

Rosewood. Single. Black. No.