Yall know anything about the Vox AC30?

  • Thread starter Thread starter LazerBeakShiek
  • Start date Start date
It has been a common practice of mine, to pull the power tubes. Said earlier in the rack, so Marshall 100/100 mono blocks, mesa 50/50's..20/20's rack stuff.

Pardon me, you're saying that because it has a tube in the rectifier circuit I cant do that anymore?
It's just basic 'rithmetic friend. In cathode biased amp the EL84s need about -10V on their control grids to bias them to about 40mA which with say a 300V HT gives about 12W anode dissipation. Four valves going through a common cathode resistor is therefore 160mA and needs around 62Ohms for Rk* Now, if you pull two valves the anode current STILL needs to be 160mills to get ~10V so the poor pair left are now dissipating well over 20W EACH!

A fixed biased amp is different. The grid voltage is derived from the PSU and thus not dependent on anode current.

*These are ball park figures from out of an 80.5 yr old head. Actual values will depend on specific circuits and to some extent valve brand.

Oh! and BTW solid state or thermionic rectifier? make no difference in this matter. I hate valve rectifiers!

Dave.
 
A fixed biased amp is different. The grid voltage is derived from the PSU and thus not dependent on anode current.
Yes, this is fact.

The take away points..
AC30 is a fixed bias amp.
my old rack power amps are MANUAL biasing.

thanks man.
 
well, I am wrong. Marshall 100/100, 50/50. 20/20 monoblocks are fixed bias networks that sets the output automatically.

So, red plating makes it sound cool?
 
Ok the math makes sense but there has to be something to it.

Looky here-
Screenshot_29-7-2026_19265_londonpower.com.webp


yeah, this did me no good.
 
I'm confused... in a class AB push/pull circuit you use a pair of tubes, one for the positive half wave, and one of the negative half wave. Pulling an odd number of tubes from that circuit means you are cutting off 1/2 of the waveform. That's got to sound like dog crap! That's not a power reduction, that's a wave form reduction.

If you're running a class A power section, then you aren't going negative on the wave form relative to ground. You only have 0 to 100% potential.
 
I'm confused... in a class AB push/pull circuit you use a pair of tubes, one for the positive half wave, and one of the negative half wave. Pulling an odd number of tubes from that circuit means you are cutting off 1/2 of the waveform.

If you're running a class A power section, then you aren't going negative on the wave form relative to ground. You only have 0 to 100% potential.
Is that about the output tubes? It sounds wrongish. It shouldnt effect the waveform in the power section, right? The preamp tubes?

It should have less highs and less lows, with harmonic distortion happening sooner. I have done this before. So , obvously youre dealing with an expert.
 
Phew! LOT to unpick there. I am glad Mr L that you have understood that the AC30 is CATHODE biased, a circuit mode that 'may' contribute to its "classic rock" tone. I shall come to that later.
Pulling two valves of 4 in a fixed biased amp such that the current through the OPT remain balanced is the usual procedure. Zero current in one half of the OPT usually results in horrendous hum! This is one of the greater benefits of Push Pull operation.
Now, thinking of PPop, the idea that the OP valves are handling half the waveform is a myth. That is just an historic way used to explain the circuit's operation (put a scope on the grids of each OP valve and you DON'T see a rectified waveform!) The output valves are effectively put in series and this in theory quadruples the power output of a single valve. This is the same principle used in "bridge mode" transistor amps.

"Class AB" means that neither OPV conducts for the whole signal cycle BUT! This is level dependent!! Take a 50W, FB amp, each EL34 say is dissipating maybe 12-18W thus AS IT STANDS it is the rough equivalent of a 15W TOTALLY class A EL84 amp and will deliver very clean power up to 15, maybe 20W. As the signal swing gets larger however the negative going part will begin to 'cut' off one valve in each cycle but the 'other' valve is being driven even harder and the transformer 'sorts out' the power and you get a more distorted but bigger signal. If you just had ONE valve left of four then you would get about 6-8W. That is still pretty loud through a guitar speaker! But again, likely it would hium like a bastard!
But...pulling bottles changes the optimum load the valve need to "see" so power and distortion levels cannot be predicted. Nor can the safety of the amp, it is often said a 2 to one "mismatch" is safe but not for every design and overvoltage spikes can wreck costly transformers. There is a BIG difference between what valve manufactures consider safe ratings and what risks player will take. Nobody is going to sue YOU if you do something daft to your amp and wreck it!

Cathode bias and "tone". There is almost always a large capacitor across Rk, usually 100mfd often bigger. When you drive a CB amp hard the voltage on Rk will rise tending to reduce anode (plate) current and therefore power. This voltage will be stored on the cap and build up and so the harder you drive the amp the more it cuts off and distorts...we like this! FB amp on the other hand can be driven ever harder and are only limited by the HT voltage. A 50W FB amp can deliver 70-80W as a rule and even 100W of distorted mayhem in the limit. The AC30 usually cannot manage much beyond 40W.

Another big factor in amp tone is the output resistance of the amp (and NFB) but these old eyes are giving out. Apologies for typos!

Dave.
 
Phew! LOT to unpick there. I am glad Mr L that you have understood that the AC30 is CATHODE biased, a circuit mode that 'may' contribute to its "classic rock" tone. I shall come to that later.
Pulling two valves of 4 in a fixed biased amp such that the current through the OPT remain balanced is the usual procedure. Zero current in one half of the OPT usually results in horrendous hum! This is one of the greater benefits of Push Pull operation.
Now, thinking of PPop, the idea that the OP valves are handling half the waveform is a myth. That is just an historic way used to explain the circuit's operation (put a scope on the grids of each OP valve and you DON'T see a rectified waveform!) The output valves are effectively put in series and this in theory quadruples the power output of a single valve. This is the same principle used in "bridge mode" transistor amps.

"Class AB" means that neither OPV conducts for the whole signal cycle BUT! This is level dependent!! Take a 50W, FB amp, each EL34 say is dissipating maybe 12-18W thus AS IT STANDS it is the rough equivalent of a 15W TOTALLY class A EL84 amp and will deliver very clean power up to 15, maybe 20W. As the signal swing gets larger however the negative going part will begin to 'cut' off one valve in each cycle but the 'other' valve is being driven even harder and the transformer 'sorts out' the power and you get a more distorted but bigger signal. If you just had ONE valve left of four then you would get about 6-8W. That is still pretty loud through a guitar speaker! But again, likely it would hium like a bastard!
But...pulling bottles changes the optimum load the valve need to "see" so power and distortion levels cannot be predicted. Nor can the safety of the amp, it is often said a 2 to one "mismatch" is safe but not for every design and overvoltage spikes can wreck costly transformers. There is a BIG difference between what valve manufactures consider safe ratings and what risks player will take. Nobody is going to sue YOU if you do something daft to your amp and wreck it!

Cathode bias and "tone". There is almost always a large capacitor across Rk, usually 100mfd often bigger. When you drive a CB amp hard the voltage on Rk will rise tending to reduce anode (plate) current and therefore power. This voltage will be stored on the cap and build up and so the harder you drive the amp the more it cuts off and distorts...we like this! FB amp on the other hand can be driven ever harder and are only limited by the HT voltage. A 50W FB amp can deliver 70-80W as a rule and even 100W of distorted mayhem in the limit. The AC30 usually cannot manage much beyond 40W.

Another big factor in amp tone is the output resistance of the amp (and NFB) but these old eyes are giving out. Apologies for typos!

Dave.
Blast yer eyes Home recording dot com! When I opened this thread on my Dell W11 laptop I got the picture attached. Not actually about pdf else I would ha ve ignored it but I clicked on "see more details" (YES! i know! silly me!)the Dell went ape shit! Locked me out, sounded a siren wanted me to phone microsoft. Held the power button and it shut down but was just the same on a reboot! How has such a dangerous thing got onto HR forum?
No problem with win 10. I thought W11 was even more secure? I fixed it with ctr,alt,delete and "sign out".
Note, the picture is fuzzy because I snapped it from the screen. I cannot find "Paste" in win 11 Paint.

Now looking at an ad blocker,

Dave.
 

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An A.I. bot that became self aware, must have opportunized a defect in the OS firewall. They are taking over the internet you know.
 
I use NoScript to block ads. Been happy with it for years.
 
Talked the guy down to $695 cash. Excellent condition. This weekend Ill take some pics and get a sound clip or two.

Vox AC30cc2
 
What I do know is that people I hear using them have the loudest amp I have ever been close to, and if the player is good, they sound really good. I have never understood how this works.
 
Beginners always dime the knobs all on 10. That's not how its done.
 
What brand of tubes does this Vox come with originally? nothing but problems..I tell ya.
 
Thanks man

I got a couple of broke tube sockets. Admitting that I guess I did not wiggle the tubes in back when I checked it out.
 
Talked the guy down to $695 cash. Excellent condition. This weekend Ill take some pics and get a sound clip or two.

Vox AC30cc2

everybody thinks i'm probably full of it. No.
There were problems, but I got it under control.
Screenshot_31-7-2026_162754.webp
 
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