Off-the-wall technique, has anyone tried this?

L

Luc the Tinkerer

New member
I got this from the N-Track forum, the poster says that after recording a vocal track, he records a "dead air" track (litterally stands in front of the mic without singing) and reverses the phase of the latter track.

He then plays both tracks side by side and according to him, it reduces ambient noise (PC fan, AC hum, etc) in the same way a humbucking pickup does.

The theory sounds good, except that in the case of a humbucking pickup, the coils are in series and out of phase...granted, only the noise is being recorded on the second track so the phase cancellations would get rid of the noise without affecting the voice I guess...

I dunno, has anybody tried this?
 
I tried this one time when i had a problem with fan noise. It didn't work, but in fairness I didn't really put much thought into it at the time.
Could be interesting though.
 
"Random" noise (or any random process) doesn't work that way.

You're not subtracting the same thing, only a thing with a similar average and distribution. You're summing the noise together, which will do quite the opposite. I imagine it could be possible to get something really regular like a 60-cycle hum component of a fan to cancel if you were to align it right and it was regular enough... sounds like a fairly chance thing and a lot of work, though.
 
Luc the Tinkerer said:
I got this from the N-Track forum, the poster says that after recording a vocal track, he records a "dead air" track (litterally stands in front of the mic without singing) and reverses the phase of the latter track.

He then plays both tracks side by side and according to him, it reduces ambient noise (PC fan, AC hum, etc) in the same way a humbucking pickup does.
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I would think that for this to work...the "noise" would have to first be *perfectly* in-phase on both tracks, and I don't see how random background noise would.
Even though the fans and AC hum sounds the same, it still has it's own "cycles", and getting them to be matched so that you can then put them 180 degrees out-of-phase ins't going to happen.
 
I think the bigger, more important question is how anyone can have been at HR for almost 12 years and only posted 29 times...

Luc the Thinkerer you should call yerself...:) a long pause for thought between posts, perhaps?

I agree with miro on this one... the noise would have to be really steady for this to work. Best course is obviously to not have the noise in the first place and think of signal to noise ratio.
 
I theory it may work but in practice I don't think it will, however:

Double tracking noise? Maybe to fatten it up? I would actually triple track the noise, then you could have the vocals with noise in the centre and could pan the noise only tracks left and right and have wide stereo noise. I have in fact heard albums that sound like a lot of noise.

Alan
 
I theory it may work but in practice I don't think it will, however:

Double tracking noise? Maybe to fatten it up? I would actually triple track the noise, then you could have the vocals with noise in the centre and could pan the noise only tracks left and right and have wide stereo noise. I have in fact heard albums that sound like a lot of noise.

Alan
 
I suspect it would be cheaper to acoustically treat your room than to provide a central synchronisation system to keep all your noise sources (room ventilation, computer fans and disks, the bus driving by outside etc.) perfectly in phase so the noise cancellation works.
 
Gee, I went to the trouble of making my computer completely silent. When I track vocals I turn the air/heat off for five minutes. If there is random noise in the room, I get it to stop or use gobos. If there is still noise in the track when done, I clean/mute it manually.

That's the nature of the beast. There are no short cuts.
 
Those are two separate recordings, and as such, they aren't going to be in phase alignment. So reversing polarity isn't going to have an effect. I think he's hearing what he wants to hear.
 
Listen dudes, I can either get upset and come across as a jerk with a chip on his shoulder or laugh it off and take it as a joke. I asked a question, that's all...

For the record (no pun intended), I am a member of a bunch of other Forums. And while I enjoy home recording, at the end of the day it is a hobby. A very enjoyable hobby I agree, and I do have a tendency of becoming obsessive about it when I get into it; but a hobby nonetheless.

I respect everyone's opinion and value constructive input. If I decided to come back to this particular Forum after that many years, it is because I know this is where I'm likeliest to find valuable info as I try muddle my way through my home studio setup.
 
Luc the Tinkerer said:
Listen dudes, I can either get upset and come across as a jerk with a chip on his shoulder or laugh it off and take it as a joke. I asked a question, that's all...

For the record (no pun intended), I am a member of a bunch of other Forums. And while I enjoy home recording, at the end of the day it is a hobby. A very enjoyable hobby I agree, and I do have a tendency of becoming obsessive about it when I get into it; but a hobby nonetheless.

I respect everyone's opinion and value constructive input. If I decided to come back to this particular Forum after that many years, it is because I know this is where I'm likeliest to find valuable info as I try muddle my way through my home studio setup.
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It's all cool Luc.

Had you tried the technique yet?
 
moresound said:
It's all cool Luc.

Had you tried the technique yet?
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:) Not yet, the general consensus is that while it might work in theory, it doesn't work that way in practice. Best advice I've gotten is basically what I suspected all along: isolate the source of the noise. My only problem is lack of space.

I could surround my PC desk with gobos, which leaves me with the problem of where to store them while not in use (my building has no storage units). But that topic belongs in the studio setup section...
 
All in jest Luc..

Mattresses are good, couches work too... I'm going home to track some vocals tonight which means I turn my couch on it's end to cut down reflections.

Whatever works...:)
 
mattamatta said:
"Random" noise (or any random process) doesn't work that way.

You're not subtracting the same thing, only a thing with a similar average and distribution. You're summing the noise together, which will do quite the opposite.
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^^^^^THIS^^^^^ is correct.

mattamatta said:
I imagine it could be possible to get something really regular like a 60-cycle hum component of a fan to cancel if you were to align it right and it was regular enough... sounds like a fairly chance thing and a lot of work, though.
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Nope. Not even then. You were right the first time! This would absolutely 100% not work in practice. Don't take my word for it. Try it yourself!
 
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