No more Jazz!!

gecko zzed said:
I don't buy that either. I can see how you can draw that conclusion if you compare the rigidity of, say, early Cliff Richard, to the flexibility of early afro-american music. But I think it is risky to limit your field of comparison. I agree that white music is, in general, more structured, but not exclusively so. For example, take Bartok, Debussy or Ravel if you are seeking organic and primal.
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ditto ..... I still think that people who believe that haven't had a great deal of direct interaction with very many black players.

Earlier mshilarious took my comment about there being black players that can't groove and kinda turned it around by saying he did know black players that weren't good but they still grooved liked mofos.

I'm flat out saying there are PLENTY of black players that couldn't groove if their lives depended on it.
I've played with 'em. And way more than a few.
You have to really be in the black community to get that deep into their average players but I can garuntee you that the idea that black players inherently have the groove is just not so.
Some do ..... some don't.
I'll agree that the percentage of blacks that have that 'feel' is probably higher than whites but it's not not a basic difference between the two races IMO.
 
Once again, Take it back to Scott Joplin. He was the most important composer in the creation of ragtime music. His pieces straddle the fence between classical music and what we now call jazz. His work was stiff and conservative. The general consensus it that his playing was also. Many who are new to him are surprised to learn he was black. Rhythm but no groove. He created his work to be played for black audiences and was surprised when it became accepted more broadly. Some argue that his music isn't jazz but it was thought to be so by the other early jazz players. He was a heavy influence on early jazz piano players, notably Fats Waller.

Few would say he was in touch with the primal. Most agree he was a great and creative player. Certainly he was one of the fathers of jazz.
 
Lt. Bob said:
ditto ..... I still think that people who believe that haven't had a great deal of direct interaction with very many black players.

Earlier mshilarious took my comment about there being black players that can't groove and kinda turned it around by saying he did know black players that weren't good but they still grooved liked mofos.
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No, I agree that there are black players who can't groove and white players who can, no surprise there. I am not the one arguing groove.

It's more like Eddie Murphy's observation about white people holding their butts real tight when they walk. I do that. Do I have to? No, if I concentrate on it I don't. But that takes effort . . .
 
mshilarious said:
It's more like Eddie Murphy's observation about white people holding their butts real tight when they walk.
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Yeah right! :D That's about what I meant. I always get the idea that maybe the spirit of the white people has been warn down by umpteen ages of a rigid, ristrictive, uptight form of civilisation. Please don't suppose I meant the "inferior" / "superior" thing someone was talking about, I would never go there.

I love really like this thread by the way, very interesting.
 
chrisghost said:
I always get the idea that maybe the spirit of the white people has been warn down by umpteen ages of a rigid, ristrictive, uptight form of civilisation.
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That could accurately describe many of the people within every culture and civilization. Believe me, there is restriction, uptightness and sometimes severe rigidity within the various Black communities populated around this planet.
Also, I think the spirits of many groupings of people have been worn down through the ages, just by historical happenings !
 
grimtraveller said:
That could accurately describe many of the people within every culture and civilization. Believe me, there is restriction, uptightness and sometimes severe rigidity within the various Black communities populated around this planet.
Also, I think the spirits of many groupings of people have been worn down through the ages, just by historical happenings !
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Point taken. But what I have in mind is this:

How many straight white guys do you know that go out and dance (and I don't mean ballroom), or even like to dance. I'm the only white guy I know that can get on the dancefloor and just let go (I need couple of drinks, granted), while it is a wonderfull way to experience music. You learn a lot about music while dancing.

There's always such a reservedness about us, like we're still strapped up in pinguin suits and afraid that someone might think we're gay.
 
There are too many steps in dancing. I could do it if maybe there were approximately four. Beyond that, I can't remember :o
 
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