No Choice

JDOD

therecordingrebels.com
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paulman77

Member
I really enjoyed that. The vocals are buried. I love the guitar on the right. The drums are too - I don't know, square I guess. They sound too perfect. Really cool song, and it's not too short. It's the perfect length, there's nothing missing. Sometimes it takes a couple of minutes to tell the story, sometimes it takes eight. Yours took 2:41, and did everything it needed to.
 

JDOD

therecordingrebels.com
I really enjoyed that. The vocals are buried. I love the guitar on the right. The drums are too - I don't know, square I guess. They sound too perfect. Really cool song, and it's not too short. It's the perfect length, there's nothing missing. Sometimes it takes a couple of minutes to tell the story, sometimes it takes eight. Yours took 2:41, and did everything it needed to.
Cheers guys, I'd had a couple of beers when I mixed that as friends and family kept dropping by after I'd finished tracking.

I think I'm happy with the vocal level in the slow first verse, but it gets buried when the faster heavier guitars come in so I'll bring it up from then on. I'll also loosen those drums up a bit.
 

Nola

Well-known member
Hey JDod, Clash influenced?

Sounds it for sure.

The guitar on the left is too loud during the staccato upstrokes. The right is arguably a little loud, too, but in a better place. Both are suffocating the vocal a bit. Cool tune, though. Nice to hear some punk.
 

JDOD

therecordingrebels.com
Hey JDod, Clash influenced?

Sounds it for sure.

The guitar on the left is too loud during the staccato upstrokes. The right is arguably a little loud, too, but in a better place. Both are suffocating the vocal a bit. Cool tune, though. Nice to hear some punk.

I'd actually been listening to a lot of Bad Religion when this one came along.

EDIT: Just listening back it now, suppose the first verse is a bit Clashy, both musically and lyrically. I am a massive Clash fan though. The vocal harmonies at the end were definitely an attempt at something Bad Religionish. There'a s couple of tuning blips on the low notes in the harmony "have" and "choice" but its alright.
 

Lt. Bob

Spread the Daf!
Nice ..... I think the vox gets buried around 00:50 ... up to then it's fine ..... really like the guitars ..... tune too.
 

Nola

Well-known member
EDIT: Just listening back it now, suppose the first verse is a bit Clashy, both musically and lyrically.

That was it. Mostly the clean upstrokes/staccato feel. I always think of Clash if that's done in the punk genre.
 

Nola

Well-known member
Anyway, Mix 2 is up in the OP.

Nice, the verse guitars are at much better levels.

They have a high frequency the first time around (second time when you have the palm muted part it's not as noticeable) that's a bit piercing -- maybe that 2k-5k range could use a small notch. I think they can come down another 1db or so volume-wise and you wouldn't lose any energy and it would clarify the mix's center.
 

heatmiser

mr. green christmas
Mix two is way better. Clearly. Good job. I would personally bring the vocals up just a bit and the palm muted guitar down a tad to balance it out more, but it's in the ballpark as is.
 

jimistone

long standing member
Finished this as planned this afternoon... but now I've stuck the vocals on it seems bit short...

Regardless, tell me what you think of the mix:

View attachment 97792

Here's Mix 2 - its amazing what you can achieve sober with a coffee and a Welsh cake.
View attachment 97799

I listened to the first mix and thought the accent guitar was too loud. You toned it down in mix 2. Sounds good...tight playing too. The crunch guitars sound great also.
 

Bubba po

Tiny Stonehenge Moment
Hi Jdude. :D

I'm listening to the second mix. I remember the first time you posted this, so it's good to hear ith with vocals. The mix overall is a good sounding one. Any nits will come from the direction of personal taste in tone. All the guitars sound great to me except, perhaps the one carrying the main noodling riff. Not my thing at all, but it's your call, your song. :D Arrangement-wise, I think a final buildup over the last 8 bars would be good, perhaps switching to double time with the snare on the downbeat, then the last couple of bars on double kick drum for a final splurge leading to the abrupt stop?

Now, vocals. :D Don't bury your vocals. I know you're not confident about them, but you have no need to worry. That said, the levels aren't too bad on this. On the intro, the levels are right, to me. When more instruments come in, you need to lift the level a couple of dB to suit, IMO. The gruff vocal is a little low in the mix. :)

Overall, this is a fine stab at getting these songs of yours finished - I'm impressed. :)
 

JDOD

therecordingrebels.com
Cheers mate. I might add more of an ending to it actually. Another few bars, more intense drumming. I'll see if I get anywhere with it this week.

I've transferred the vocals for 2nd and 3rd verses (when the distorted guitars is in) to a separate track so I can bring them up. I'm fine doing metal, harsh vocals, I just struggle when I try to sing clean. I think I just can't put the same effort in without it turning to a scream. I might bring the lead vocal in the chorus up a notch.

I initially tuned the vocals for the harmonies at the end, but I just preferred it without. The lead vocal isn't tuned of course.
I'll see what the rest of the regular tone threaders say about it before I do another mic.
 

Greg_L

Banned
I definitely hear the Bad Religion influence in this. If it were 50 BPM faster it'd fit in the NOFX style too. Good song.

Anyway, it sounds okay to me. I don't think your vocals are too buried, but they are sort of clouded up by that janky reverb you're using on them. Sounds like you're singing from the end of a hallway. Actually, the whole thing sounds kind of boxy to me. But the vocals especially need better clarity IMO. You've got some clashing, no pun intended, with the kick, guitars, and bass but I wouldn't worry about it too much. The middle lead-line guitar steps on things a little bit. The mix does sound kind of dated to me, actually like an 80s Bad Religion record, but that's not a bad thing if that's what you're going for. If you're going for a modern punk-style mix, you've got more work to do. Your drum programming seems pretty good. Nothing there screamed octopus drummer to me. The sounds are kind of generic ez drummer though. Overall you've come a very long way and gotten much better, so just keep working at it and don't listen to too many opinions.
 

JDOD

therecordingrebels.com
I definitely hear the Bad Religion influence in this. If it were 50 BPM faster it'd fit in the NOFX style too. Good song.

Anyway, it sounds okay to me. I don't think your vocals are too buried, but they are sort of clouded up by that janky reverb you're using on them. Sounds like you're singing from the end of a hallway. Actually, the whole thing sounds kind of boxy to me. But the vocals especially need better clarity IMO. You've got some clashing, no pun intended, with the kick, guitars, and bass but I wouldn't worry about it too much. The middle lead-line guitar steps on things a little bit. The mix does sound kind of dated to me, actually like an 80s Bad Religion record, but that's not a bad thing if that's what you're going for. If you're going for a modern punk-style mix, you've got more work to do. Your drum programming seems pretty good. Nothing there screamed octopus drummer to me. The sounds are kind of generic ez drummer though. Overall you've come a very long way and gotten much better, so just keep working at it and don't listen to too many opinions.

Thanks Greg, I'm using the Live Real Room reverb. I might try a few different ones. All of the vox are double tracked with the 2nd one a couple of db quieter with a touch more reverb. Have you got a favourite vocal verb impulse?

I wouldn't know the difference between a modern mix and an 80s mix! I do listen to a fair bit of BR though so maybe it rubs off on how I mix things. The only modern punk I listen to is the new BR stuff anyway.

I guess I'll gradually work out what is and isn't clashing where and how to sort it out.
 

Tadpui

Well-known member
listening to mix #2...

I think this sounds great. The vocals sound very good. Once the crunch guitar comes in at the verse, the vocals could come up even more. Just a hair.

Is that the DS1 on the lead guitar? Sounds cool.

Clean guitars sound great, drums sound good (nice programming). You're getting more out of EZDrummer than I could, my drums always sounded conspicuously fake.

I don't hear much bass guitar, but I tend to go overboard on bass so it may be fine by normal standards.

Great job man, this is really a good overall mix, performance, and composition.
 

JDOD

therecordingrebels.com
Cheers tad.

Its not a DS1, no - I haven't used that in ages. I think the whole track has the same distortion sound on it. What I might have done (can't actually remember) which might make you think of cheapo Boss solid state is added a hint of drive from the SD1.

With EZD, I just sit there tapping my knees and thinking through my drums as if I was playing them. I go beyond programming what I'm actually capable of, but I do stick to stuff that I can actually imagine playing - while this is a bit limited it probably also helps them sound real.

A friend of mine has given me a bunch of tips too, so I'm gonna look into them and try a few of his suggestions. Hopefully I can learn a fair bit from remixing this slightly.
 
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