R
robin watson
New member
Jeezuz, analog guys - where do you get off?
(^:
(^:
G
Good Friend
New member
Holy crap
Hey Dr ZEE, i just went to your homepage for the first time. I dont know how you find the time to do all that stuff. If i start a project im bored in ten minutes or im onto a new project.
WOW
Hey Dr ZEE, i just went to your homepage for the first time. I dont know how you find the time to do all that stuff. If i start a project im bored in ten minutes or im onto a new project.
WOW
FALKEN
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Whether you’re a professional audio mixer, musician, or live sound engineer, Reel Tape Suite (which includes TDM, RTAS®, and AudioSuite™ versions of all three plug-ins) will bring the richness and vintage sound of analog gear to your Pro Tools|HD® Accel, Pro Tools LE™, Pro Tools M-Powered™, Avid Xpress®, Avid Xpress DV, Avid Xpress DNA, or Digidesign® VENUE live sound environment system with ease.
Here's the thing... you say that they are fraudulent when they say they can bring the "richness and vintage sound of analog gear". But what does that even mean? Can you define the "richness and vintage sound of analog gear" and prove that they do not have this? Could you provide real evidence that the "sound" is not there? First you would have to define what that "sound" is. I know that sound. Could I describe it? sure....I could say its bassier, or clearer, or softer, or more psychedelic, or whatever, but you couldn't say that digidesign can't also provide all of those things. Its just marketing man. Do you get pissed off when companies say that their product "tastes better", or even say when a diet cola says it tastes "like the original" ? Do people actually believe its going to taste the same anyway?
Here's the thing... you say that they are fraudulent when they say they can bring the "richness and vintage sound of analog gear". But what does that even mean? Can you define the "richness and vintage sound of analog gear" and prove that they do not have this? Could you provide real evidence that the "sound" is not there? First you would have to define what that "sound" is. I know that sound. Could I describe it? sure....I could say its bassier, or clearer, or softer, or more psychedelic, or whatever, but you couldn't say that digidesign can't also provide all of those things. Its just marketing man. Do you get pissed off when companies say that their product "tastes better", or even say when a diet cola says it tastes "like the original" ? Do people actually believe its going to taste the same anyway?
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
If some of you guys think that digidesign and like companies are the examples of fairness, honesty and integrity and very much in contrast to Dr. Zee's argumentation, then please explain the following to me:
Starting in the 80's there was an apparent, carefully staged marketing war against analog, that most people bought into, save a few who saw through the BS, invariably causing the slow death and discontinuation of very fine analog machines. No one dared to use the word analog or tape as it was considered a dirty word. Everyone, on the other hand, touted digital as the holy grail. Digital this, digital that.
Forward to 2007. The market for analog (real analog) is there and growing and many have hopped on over from the digital side. Many dissappointed in digital. Even manufacturers jumped on the band wagon, from plugins to 1bit recording that's supposed to be "better than analog tape" ..... and now this, simulation of tape and tape machines. I don't know about you but this is PATHETIC.
I don't care and have no interest in hearing a bunch of plastic, electronics chips and software trying to recreate some tape machine. To sum up, Dr. Zee is right on. It's FRAUD at its highest, especially when taken in the context of the last 20 years or so. To not laugh hysterically at this BS and accept it would be borderline criminal.
Starting in the 80's there was an apparent, carefully staged marketing war against analog, that most people bought into, save a few who saw through the BS, invariably causing the slow death and discontinuation of very fine analog machines. No one dared to use the word analog or tape as it was considered a dirty word. Everyone, on the other hand, touted digital as the holy grail. Digital this, digital that.
Forward to 2007. The market for analog (real analog) is there and growing and many have hopped on over from the digital side. Many dissappointed in digital. Even manufacturers jumped on the band wagon, from plugins to 1bit recording that's supposed to be "better than analog tape" ..... and now this, simulation of tape and tape machines. I don't know about you but this is PATHETIC.
I don't care and have no interest in hearing a bunch of plastic, electronics chips and software trying to recreate some tape machine. To sum up, Dr. Zee is right on. It's FRAUD at its highest, especially when taken in the context of the last 20 years or so. To not laugh hysterically at this BS and accept it would be borderline criminal.
Dr ZEE
Anti-Pro Circles Insider
B
Beck
Guest
This plug-in is not anything new. It may be new to someone that's never heard of it. This particular item has been the talk for a few months now with mixed reviews.
What it offers that any other emulator doesn't, including Digidesign's own "Analog channel" I don't know. That is, I don't see anything new here but a new marketing angle... new terminology and other things marketing people do, like adding these cool spinning reels.
Analog Channel was the “Big news” last year.
From Digidesign:
“Analog Channel is two plug-ins and reproduces the sounds of high-end analog tape machines, analog tape, and analog channel amplifiers. Analog Channel gives the user complete control of analog gain staging (AC1), and analog tape and tape machines (AC2). Analog Channel's AC1 is a "class A" gain stage - the premium amplification design in the analog world for audio production. The Analog Channel Emulator AC2 plug-In is an emulator of the most popular analog tape machines (and tape mediums) known to the professional audio recording industry.”
Need I go on with the big news for the year before and the year before that, as far back as I can remember? (Yawn)
These threads wouldn’t be so long if everyone understood what can and can’t be done with a given technology.
I’m seeing a condemnation of those that tend to be skeptical of this sort of “Revolutionary technological breakthrough” without actually trying it. But what about those that tend to embrace it without knowing anything about it? They (you) are in the majority. Digidesign loves you and wants to have your baby.
That’s where this analog guy gets off… I don’t know about anyone else here because we don’t all see things the same.
Bigfoot doesn’t exist. Some think it centers on sightings and photos… you would actually have to go out and look for it yourself before you had a right to say it couldn’t exist... some would say.
Others like me with a natural resources/wildlife management background know the creature would need an environment with the resources to sustain it. It would leave behind sign, like waste, scat, bones, footprints etc. The only footprints thus far were fake… contrived, much like the people at Digidesign are doing with these toys.
Most people don’t realize it can’t be done just like many people don’t realize you don’t go looking for inland freshwater fish in the ocean, or that certain plants simply cannot grow in certain parts of the earth.
With recording technology one must have enough background to grasp things at an engineering level before the conversation becomes intelligent. That often just won’t happen on this bbs or any other, which are by nature product oriented and driven by manufacturer marketing campaigns.
Right now the music industry is full of modern day snake oil salesmen. And people are standing in line with the hope that something in the bottle will cure their musical ills.
What it offers that any other emulator doesn't, including Digidesign's own "Analog channel" I don't know. That is, I don't see anything new here but a new marketing angle... new terminology and other things marketing people do, like adding these cool spinning reels.
Analog Channel was the “Big news” last year.
From Digidesign:
“Analog Channel is two plug-ins and reproduces the sounds of high-end analog tape machines, analog tape, and analog channel amplifiers. Analog Channel gives the user complete control of analog gain staging (AC1), and analog tape and tape machines (AC2). Analog Channel's AC1 is a "class A" gain stage - the premium amplification design in the analog world for audio production. The Analog Channel Emulator AC2 plug-In is an emulator of the most popular analog tape machines (and tape mediums) known to the professional audio recording industry.”
Need I go on with the big news for the year before and the year before that, as far back as I can remember? (Yawn)
These threads wouldn’t be so long if everyone understood what can and can’t be done with a given technology.
I’m seeing a condemnation of those that tend to be skeptical of this sort of “Revolutionary technological breakthrough” without actually trying it. But what about those that tend to embrace it without knowing anything about it? They (you) are in the majority. Digidesign loves you and wants to have your baby.
That’s where this analog guy gets off… I don’t know about anyone else here because we don’t all see things the same.
Bigfoot doesn’t exist. Some think it centers on sightings and photos… you would actually have to go out and look for it yourself before you had a right to say it couldn’t exist... some would say.
Others like me with a natural resources/wildlife management background know the creature would need an environment with the resources to sustain it. It would leave behind sign, like waste, scat, bones, footprints etc. The only footprints thus far were fake… contrived, much like the people at Digidesign are doing with these toys.
Most people don’t realize it can’t be done just like many people don’t realize you don’t go looking for inland freshwater fish in the ocean, or that certain plants simply cannot grow in certain parts of the earth.
With recording technology one must have enough background to grasp things at an engineering level before the conversation becomes intelligent. That often just won’t happen on this bbs or any other, which are by nature product oriented and driven by manufacturer marketing campaigns.
Right now the music industry is full of modern day snake oil salesmen. And people are standing in line with the hope that something in the bottle will cure their musical ills.
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B
Beck
Guest
By the way a little OT, but has anyone ever managed to prepare cream of tomato soup without it boiling over the sides of the pot. I'm not sure it can be done. Shouldn’t there be a warning label about this?
See, what happens is I put it on and then get distracted with something like this Windows XP USB bug I'm working on right now.
Plus I was watching Gunsmoke on TV Land at the same time, and responding to this thread.
Anyway, I hear this sizzling sound and I think, "What the hell is that?" And then.... SHIT! It's my tomato soup, which is now all over the top of the oven.
This has happened more times than I can count, and only with tomato soup. It doesn't matter how low the flame. Whataya think? Bigger pot maybe? More focus on my part? Maybe multitasking and tomato soup don’t mix… like playing with fire or something. Any ideas would be appreciated.
See, what happens is I put it on and then get distracted with something like this Windows XP USB bug I'm working on right now.
Plus I was watching Gunsmoke on TV Land at the same time, and responding to this thread.
Anyway, I hear this sizzling sound and I think, "What the hell is that?" And then.... SHIT! It's my tomato soup, which is now all over the top of the oven.
This has happened more times than I can count, and only with tomato soup. It doesn't matter how low the flame. Whataya think? Bigger pot maybe? More focus on my part? Maybe multitasking and tomato soup don’t mix… like playing with fire or something. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Dr ZEE
Anti-Pro Circles Insider
that's an easy one.Beck said:
Do what you are actually good at and everything will be inside the pot, right where it belongs.
now, who am I talking to?
FALKEN
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Beck said:
Yes, and many people also don't realize that diet coke doesn't taste as good as the original. we should be up in arms!!! The cola company is a FRAUD! Oh man, and they told me that the snickers bar would SATISFY me. it says it right on the label. but it didn't!!! FRAUDS!! and they told me that Miller Lite tastes better! They lied!!! Digidesign, or digital recording, love it or hate it, I don't see a problem with their marketing. Or maybe if I did see a problem with the marketing, that problem would be with marketing overall and I wouldn't really see the big deal with digidesign in particular.
B
Beck
Guest
FALKEN said:
I don't differentiate between Digidesign and any other player in this corrupt industry. The subject just happens to be one of their products.
Consumers are just as much to blame anyway for that matter.
Nonetheless, I do have a problem with dishonesty in marketing. That many people don’t is a reflection of the breakdown of our society.
I'm sure you feel differently when you take your car into a repair shop. You no doubt expect to get the service you are paying for. You would surely feel ill-used if you paid for a product or service that wasn't delivered as advertised.
FALKEN
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Beck said:
OK Sure. In this case there should be some sort of evidence that your car was not repaired as described. But how can you actually prove that a particular beer tastes "better", or that a fabric softener makes your clothes "softer"? These are subjective opinions. Much like what "vintage analog sound" is. If you took your car back to the mechanic and said "my car just doesn't feel right. I know it should be driving differently but I can't really describe it" I doubt you are going to get your money back.
Dr ZEE
Anti-Pro Circles Insider
Are you trying to say that "Reel Tape (tee em)" is the gate to the richness and vintage sound of analog gear just as much as diet coke is the same as the 'original' one?FALKEN said:
Also, it is to be expected that most people would have no 'problems' with neither 'cases'. And so they don't. An analyst and a strategist would say: "The market is ready. It's time to move in, Sir."
I personally have no problems with market moving things around regardlessly, as long as the "word" about the market and "things that are moving around within it" is moving around freelly as well.
/respects
B
Beck
Guest
FALKEN said:
The analogy doesn't work.
They are taking advantage of public ignorance... no different than someone passing fools gold off as real gold. That’s not a Pepsi vs. Coke proposition.
But anyway it's all been said for anyone here that can dive that deeply...
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=2519843&postcount=47
I could go on about how music equipment manufacturers aren’t regulated in the same way as bubblegum makers, and 100 other things, but I just don’t get paid enough around here.
The bottom line is there are people that think there really is a plug-in for everything.
This is possible because the average consumer has a vacuum between his ears where there should be at least a rudimentary understanding of the nuts and bolts of how these technologies work. I have always recommended people take this stuff seriously, turn off the fucking computer and do some research outside of web forums.
You could look back a few months from now to this thread and realize that Digidesign is basically saying that pigs can fly.
And we could move on to discuss something that is actually controvertible for a change.
I'm out..................................
Dr ZEE
Anti-Pro Circles Insider
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
T
The Ghost of FM
Banned
It must be spring? 
For I see the analog glee club is out, sporting their true colors!
Cheers!
For I see the analog glee club is out, sporting their true colors!
Cheers!
Dr ZEE
Anti-Pro Circles Insider
heh heh,The Ghost of FM said:It must be spring?
For I see the analog glee club is out, sporting their true colors!
Cheers!
that's OK, Jeff. Seeing is within.
What seems to be spring may be rather Full Moon. Also, we don't sing, we rather 'move'.
Attachments
FALKEN
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T
The Ghost of FM
Banned
I think I must have been using the polar opposite of that stuff all my life!FALKEN said:
Cheers!