Neumann U87 - what am I missing?

[BigRay]

I got my pair of Um92.1's for less than that - of course they weren't new, but I'd take them over U87's any day. I had one, and wasn't that impressed, although, as someone stated, it really isn't as evident how much better they are than a chinese mic till the track is sitting in a mix.........

Thats cool man, MG makes good mics, no doubt about it. They are my favorite company. However, I will take my modded u87 pair over ANY pair of mics , period. Either past or present. Stock they are boring. Modded they smoke anything ive ever heard.

 

[BigRay]

Personally I prefer the U89 over the U87.

I had a pair of u89s but sent them back quickly. Not only do you get that sort of "blah" flat response (and 5 patterns of it, no doubt ) but because of how the mic is manufactured absolutely nothing can be done in way of modifications to improve the sound at all. I am a huge fan of modification of all sorts of gear, and if it cant be improved AND sounds boring to begin with, I dont want it. To quote Mr. Heyne "The u89 is the dog of the high end mic world".

Your mileage may vary. THere are certainly a lot of differing opinions here, and thats a good thing!! Who cares what I think??Hell, I dont half the time!


I hope your u89 continues to bring you good results.

 

[BigRay]

I got my pair of Um92.1's for less than that - of course they weren't new, but I'd take them over U87's any day. I had one, and wasn't that impressed, although, as someone stated, it really isn't as evident how much better they are than a chinese mic till the track is sitting in a mix.........

The um92.1s are excellent, as are all of MGs products. (I havent seen a MG mic yet that I didnt like, they are the best company around in my opinion) Id take them over stock u87s any day too. As a matter of fact, I am going to be making a purchase from MG in a couple weeks. (pair of m27(omni) caps) for my sms2000 sdc's). and one day I WILL have a pair of the um900s. THose are my dream mics. I :heart: MG!! Great company, second to none customer service, superior quality control. They dont care as much about the masses as they do about maintaining the integrity of the products...and thats a good thing. I can think of 3 companies right off the bat who dont. (but I aint goin there) MG is the bomb.

 

[Innovations]

I recently interviewed for a job at a radio station. The interview was held in their interivew studio. The mic at the interview station was a Neumann. I was impressed but actually I was thinking that it was probably there only for the snob appeal and was a waste of money for a radio spoken word mic. If I were told to outfit the studio, even with an essentially bottomless budget, I would have most likely put a RE20 there.

 

[mixmkr]

I think someone hit the nail on the head in an earlier post and stated that the U87 was the big boy before all these others currently showed up (not discounting the C12, etc, etc....)

But I will say this, sing into the thing off axis, and then do the same with your MXL condensor. Compare those results. Then decide which one you want on drum overheads picking up those floor toms off to the side.

I think some of those MXL mics are fantastic for what they are, especially given the price. But dang, it sounds like someone put a sock over it if you stand off to the side.

 

[Big Kenny]

I think that's an astute observation! All my middle of the road mics are great if you are right on top of 'em, but get off axis a bit and only the cream will float ( and what else floats?......no not that........)

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

I had a pair of u89s but sent them back quickly. Not only do you get that sort of "blah" flat response (and 5 patterns of it, no doubt ) but because of how the mic is manufactured absolutely nothing can be done in way of modifications to improve the sound at all.

The U89 isn't a choice for vocals though, but I like the mostly flat, slightly fat sound you get on instruments.

 

[noisedude]

I think that's an astute observation! All my middle of the road mics are great if you are right on top of 'em, but get off axis a bit and only the cream will float ( and what else floats?......no not that........)

Ah ... so you can't polish a turd, but you can float one. In a bucket of cream.

So ..... does this mean cheap mics are good after all, as long as you don't actually try to make them good?

 

[BRIEFCASEMANX]

although i don't own one, i too get to hear one at school. Although it isn't always the best choice it is really smooth sounding, and *seems like it would take to EQ really well.

*got to do a mix with one in the mp3 forum mixathons awhile back, but one somewhat sparse mix that i had no hand in the tracking of isn't exactly the basis to derive a definitive opinion of the mic.

 

[darnold]

I used to have two Nuemann U87s. Cant say i liked them alot or not. They were great mics and i think had very accurate mids. I think that was mentioned before but thats what i really noticed. Really thick and smooth. It is kind of boring though. But when you hear it on a home stereo speaker system after it just sounds like a really smooth mics.

I really liked the sound of it on horns. Gave it the brassy punch without getting super harsh in the mids. Especially with trombone. Definately killed the Studio Projects C1 as far as tightness, harshness and general accuracy goes though. But lets not bring that up.

Had a MG UM70 to go on the side of it too. They sound very similiar style of microphone but the UM70 seemed to be a little more agressive in my opinion.

Danny

 

[PhilGood]

I'm just gonna throw in my humble opinion, because I have never used one. Maybe the U87 is a success not because of what you hear, but what you don't hear. You don't get the annoying frequencies that you have to EQ out, or the ones you have to compensate for. Why else would so many recordings done with that mic sound so good? Isn't the mixdown the ultimate test of whether a mic works or not?

Maybe it sounds boring because the sound is right and we don't expect right to sound that way?

I dunno, just a thought...

 

[CCS]

I'm just gonna throw in my humble opinion, because I have never used one. Maybe the U87 is a success not because of what you hear, but what you don't hear. You don't get the annoying frequencies that you have to EQ out, or the ones you have to compensate for. Why else would so many recordings done with that mic sound so good? Isn't the mixdown the ultimate test of whether a mic works or not?

On the basis of the comments here on how bad the U87 sounds, think of all the recordings using that mic that should be re-recorded, because of its inferior qualities

 

[billisa]

This may tick some people off, though that's not my intention, but I think advancing and increasingly computerized design/manufacture techniques are proving out the law of diminishing returns.

If it was their goal, any company that wanted to could take apart a Neumann and make a spot on duplicate -- then produce millions of them. Only the law prevents this now (and not always successfully) whereas it used to be that proprietary technology and assembly know-how prevented this.

In 1990, give or take, MIT did a study on European auto manufacturing techniques. Bottom line, if you think more expensive translates into more reliable, or better performance, think again... A sad case in point is my neighbor's $90K 2005 BMW that after a dozen or so trips back to the dealer was finally bought back by that dealer because of one quality issue after another.

Meanwhile, at 1/4 of the price of the BMW, my 1992 Subary SVX would blow the doors off the Bimmer, with AWD, and still runs like a top at 200,000 miles. Solid, luxurious (and when I bought it at 130,000miles, only $5K).

Which is "better"?

One thing the U87 has in its considerable favor is it's so well known that those who rely on it for producing world-class product know EXACTLY how it will perform and EXACTLY what to do with it to get the results they want. Notice the posts that mention how knowledgeable engineers use this or that EQ to get the proper result. (Here again, there are lots of factories all over the place that can produce phenomenal consistency unheard of two decades ago. Medical equipment is a good case in point, even more than things like microphones).

So, this isn't a knock on the Neumann. I wish I had one. Just a thought to say that today there are a plethora of options that may not be as good as $2K, but they're not bad either. Not bad at all.

 

[xfinsterx]

It depends who is singing into it.

Some people sound just right on a 87.

Some people dont.

Sure there are lots of factors at work here...the room, the mic itself (modded, not modded) and the signal chain.

But for the most part its the mic matching the singer's voice suitably, that is key.

The 87 is good, but its no magic bullet.

-Finster

 

[Herm]

Lets not forget when it got it reputation as a great mic and what other mics it was up against. Not to many, Also When it got its reputation as a great mic it was probably used with nothing but analog.
It does make a differance.

 

[DonGraham]

In 1990, give or take, MIT did a study on European auto manufacturing techniques. Bottom line, if you think more expensive translates into more reliable, or better performance, think again... A sad case in point is my neighbor's $90K 2005 BMW that after a dozen or so trips back to the dealer was finally bought back by that dealer because of one quality issue after another.

Meanwhile, at 1/4 of the price of the BMW, my 1992 Subary SVX would blow the doors off the Bimmer, with AWD, and still runs like a top at 200,000 miles. Solid, luxurious (and when I bought it at 130,000miles, only $5K).

Which is "better"?
.

YET to this day the BMW is worth 10X as much as your Subaru!!!....And when you ask someone..."what would you rather have: a Subaru or a BMW" the answer is inevitably BMW. When you see the BMW it is much prettier than the Subaru.....It sounds better. Has nicer paint, leather and carpet,.......but you are right that the subaru is probably a better value for the $$$$$......same with Neumann.......I would still rather have a U87 than.....(insert cheaper mic here)

As a side note i have a C3 Corvette...I will whip your subaru havin ass in the 1/4 mile: 12.4@117mph ................ just jokin around!!

 

[billisa]

YET to this day the BMW is worth 10X as much as your Subaru!!!....And when you ask someone..."what would you rather have: a Subaru or a BMW" the answer is inevitably BMW. When you see the BMW it is much prettier than the Subaru.....It sounds better. Has nicer paint, leather and carpet,.......but you are right that the subaru is probably a better value for the $$$$$......same with Neumann.......I would still rather have a U87 than.....(insert cheaper mic here)

As a side note i have a C3 Corvette...I will whip your subaru havin ass in the 1/4 mile: 12.4@117mph ................ just jokin around!!

Hey, let me tell you about the SVX. Projector headlamps, full leather interior with suede trim, 3.3 flat-6 with 230HP and 230 ft.lbs of torque. Talk about smooth, effortless acceleration...

If you know the car, then you'll know there's nothing like it ever produced by anyone. Only 15,000 were ever imported here ('92-97). I don't doubt your Corvette's power, but I will say it didn't take long when I brought SVX up to 110mph. The '92's were actually driven by folks to 145mph and later years had a governor put in the ECU to keep it under 130 or so. Great car.

And you're right... Very few people in '92 wanted to spend $30K for an SVX because it was a Subaru. The badge on the front means everything to some people.

 

[PhilGood]

Guys, if I hear zippers opening I'm gonna gouge my eyes out with a screwdriver before I see anything I really don't wanna see!

Eh, maybe I'll just drink a few screwdrivers. Then I can probably stand a ____ measuring contest!

 

[MCI2424]

As part of my ongoing education I spend some time each week in a purpose-built studio with a £60,000 Pro Tools rig with requisite Focusrite preamps, Genelec monitoring and all that jazz. Naturally the people who I learn with have never made a recording on a four-track or understand how a hardware mixer works.

Anyway, we have access to a lot of expensive mics and through numerous sessions with different bands and singers I have started to notice something. The U87ai that the university wants us to use for vocals almost always gets beaten out by less expensive mics on my AB tests. A friend of mine has an SE Z5600 down there which usually gets the nod, or an AT4050 for someone who really doesn't need much help with their voice. One lot of backing vox were done with a C414-XLS recently ... rather than the U87.

So what am I missing? The mic doesn't sound that hot to me at all ... a bit 'dull' or 'flat', with not a lot of 'depth' to the sound but sometimes a little 'hyped' in the high end ... but not always in a pleasant or 'musical' way.

I'm yet to try my T3 against it but my ears tell me that the Neumann probably won't have much on that either. I know I'm fairly new to having quality monitors in a quality monitoring environment ... but surely there's something really obvious that I'm missing that makes this mic an 'industry standard'?

Enlighten me, fellas.

Nik

I see this all the time. The really good thing is that when you get a properly working U87, it is a great all around mic. Your mic was probably mishandled and damaged on countless occasions. The proper way to find out the truth is to rent a U87 for a day and find out what a working one will do. The U87 has taken a beating in reputation becaues of posts like this ( I am NOT blaming you at ALL). If the U87 were really a pig, it would not be discussed on Klause's BBS so frequently. These stories show up there frequently when people (especially at schools) try bogus U87s and are really shocked at how much better and useful a working example is.

I have a pair and use them all the time. They are great sounding workhorse mics that somehow slipped up into the overpriced catagory.

Good luck in your venture!
acorec

 

[noisedude]

I don't forsee myself being in the position to buy U87s for myself in the mid-term future, so it's just conjecture anyway. I will continue to buy what I think is the best I can at my price point - where a hobby has to remain a hobby unless your friends start paying you better to practice it!!

It's not inconceivable I might hire one .... but would that not also be rather "well used" in condition?

Thanks for your help Ac, I appreciate constructive disagreement like that!

Nik