Myths

[funkydrummer]

--the biggest myth of all has to be that large box above the pro audio counter at guitar center. the one that has a computer, software, plugins, etc... i think their slogan should be "everything you need to record quality songs except talent."

--after reading these posts, i've decided to not buy a certain $100 preamp, and upgrade my $60 musiciains friend special guitar.

--by the way, why do people who have no education or training in electronics and physics call themselves an engineer? is it because they can put a mic in front of a sound source? if i spent years in college and years after in a studio training to become an engineer, i would take offence to someone simply giving themselves that title.

 

[EDAN]

At least he's not an anonymous coward like you, hiding behind an internet alias.

You have zero credibility with me.

Umm, ok. I have no credibility with another anonymous poster, go figure.


BTW, the names Edan Jackson, I live at 3003 Moyer Place off US- 35 in Round Rock Texas, just up the road from Austin. Stop by if you're ever in the area!

Ok, Now I'm not anonumous,?

FYI, I give what I get. If someone wants to rag on a piece of gear and in the proccess insult a person, in this case yours truly, then fine, but then they put themselves out there to prove they know what they are talking about, in this case after hearing his work, I merely pointed out his work is less than impressive for having such a big mouth and that with my lowely gear I produce much better recordings.

 

[fraserhutch]

Umm, ok. I have no credibility with another anonymous poster, go figure.


BTW, the names Edan Jackson, I live at 3003 Moyer Place off US- 35 in Round Rock Texas, just up the road from Austin. Stop by if you're ever in the area!

Ok, Now I'm not anonumous,?

FYI, I give what I get. If someone wants to rag on a piece of gear and in the proccess insult a person, in this case yours truly, then fine, but then they put themselves out there to prove they know what they are talking about, in this case after hearing his work, I merely pointed out his work is less than impressive for having such a big mouth and that with my lowely gear I produce much better recordings.

Then put your money where your mouth is - post links of your stuff up here to prove your boasts.

My point is, he puts his stuff up there. You don't.

 

[mshilarious]

--by the way, why do people who have no education or training in electronics and physics call themselves an engineer? is it because they can put a mic in front of a sound source? if i spent years in college and years after in a studio training to become an engineer, i would take offence to someone simply giving themselves that title.

How do you think the guys that drive trains feel

The early guys and many of the moderns do have relevant degrees, so it's become the official title. I prefer "recordist" for myself, even though I've scraped together enough knowledge to design and build simple circuits.

 

[Dogman]

If you kids don't stop fighting in the back seat, Fletcher is going to turn this thread right around and take us all back home again.

G.

I must say....I laughed pretty hard at this one......

 

[Creamyapples1]

--by the way, why do people who have no education or training in electronics and physics call themselves an engineer? is it because they can put a mic in front of a sound source? if i spent years in college and years after in a studio training to become an engineer, i would take offence to someone simply giving themselves that title.

I've played for many years, and still have trouble refering to myself as a "Musician". I started in 1999 with an ADAT and an 8 channel crappy board recording stuff, just recently making the jump to PC based after a few years of just playing here and there, and I resemble more an Asshat with the ability to make some noise than an Engineer by any definition.

Another self given title that cracks me up around here is "Producer". I guess a marketable client base is optional with that title these days...

 

[NL5]

Another self given title that cracks me up around here is "Producer". I guess a marketable client base is optional with that title these days...

Yep, we got tons of them running around this town. They steal some software, get a couple hundred bucks in gear, and Viola! they are a "producer". Many of these jokers have their own "record label" as well. Craigslist is FLOODED with them.......

 

[EDAN]

Then put your money where your mouth is - post links of your stuff up here to prove your boasts.

My point is, he puts his stuff up there. You don't.

My point is, simply posting your work doesn't excuse your bedside manner. You are just inviting people to put you in your place with a cocky attitude. His only point to replying to my Behringer post was to be a wise ass. Now, I'd be happy to post a song or two, certainly not to boast but rather to show people what can be achieved with modest and yes, some out and out cheap gear as well, when you trust your own ears.

 

[gcapel]

I was in guitar center the other day. I was talking to this guy who said he was a producer and was building a home studio. He was looking at gear. I asked him what type of converters was he using. He said, oh I got somebody that takes care of all that. I simply uttered...pfff.... and walked off. What a joke. It takes years and years to master this shit. He ain't no producer. I don't care what you call yourself, if your behind the console pushing buttons and turning knobs you'd aught to know all of the hardware, software, etc.. that is involved in and out. I agree the word "producer" gets thown around like a basketball in college basketball game.

 

[Farview]

You could use some advice on recording acoustic guitar for one as well as mixing.

Because we all know that there is only one true way to record an acoustic guitar

I'm too busy producing demos on my trusty ole Tascam TSR-8 (along with some lowly Behringer gear ) that seriously outclasses your "work" to help you out right now.

Too bad you weren't too busy to post this.

 

[Farview]

98 percent of musicians suck. I know everyone will riot about that one. But its true. No one really knows about how rhythm, melody or harmony work. Any time you try to teach someone about how music really works on the mind all you get is denial and excuses. Like if you say, try writing a few tunes using only the harmonic scale chords people fucking RAGE. Because they hear that as a RULE. And since they dont understand what the rule is they just fight it in their mind and say "rules were meant to be broken, its ROCK AND ROLL!" and keep on regurgitating the same old shit, imitating their heros which are 95 percent of the time just the musicians they idolize or the musicians that were popular during a good time of their life.

It's too bad that the world doesn't live up to your standards.

I will say that no amount of theory (not guitar scales theory, SONGWRITING THEORY) will replace inspiration and emotion. NO AMOUNT.

So what you just said isn't completely true?

If you only know how to make a handful of emotional effects on your listeners minds, how will it ever move them beyond the emotional effects of genre associations or "guitar tone"? It wont.

A lot of times the genre is defined by that singular emotion and/or guitar tone. If you change it too much, you aren't in that genre any more.

Basically you want to know the short shit of it all? All the best music that survives genre and time were written using beats that are real beats to start. Not just loud or hard hitting or alot of fills. Ive heard your shitting drummers, dont try to deny that you all do this. Next is melody. Melody is CRUCIAL. Every note matters. The order of the notes matter. Why? Because of the emotional effects of intervals on the human brain. Dont even try to say its a matter of taste. Its biologically built into all human beings. The brain senses direction and departing/arriving sensations from intervals. The chords must follow the melody in order to make the harmony interesting. Harmony is the invisible weight behind all good tunes. Not tunes you think are great because the guitar sound is ripping. Fuck guitar. Sell your guitar right now and buy a piano and spent 10 years learning how great songs in history are SIMILAR to each other. You laugh but this is better than trying to TUBE yourself into great songwriting abilities. 90 percent of great songs use interesting manipulation of the relationships between the relative minor/major chords. But no one ever even tries that these days. Its a dead art. Those who do are hugely famous and stand way out from all other current "artists".[/b] maybe you should investigate the 'emotional effects' of some Prozac

These days being an artist means you have a cool haircut, or youre all "tortured" and you sepnd half your music video acting like youre all complex and cool.

When was image not a part of it?

Fuck you all im so sick of your dumbass fucking debates about recording equipment when you dont even know about how subdominant chords are used in songwriting or any of the other devices that ARE THERE TO HELP YOU NOT SUCK. [/b] too bad there's nothing to make you not suck.

No one can deny even one of these statements, but im sure youll ALL be pissed as shit.

Your recordings suck because you suck as a musician. Im sorry. Either realize or suffer.

Go fuck yourself.

 

[Farview]

Another couple myths:

1. You can fix anything in Protools (or your favorite DAW)

You can tweak a lot of things, but there is no 'stop sucking' button

2. Auto-tune can fix a bad performance.

All you can get is a more 'in tune' bad performance.

 

[mrT]

here are some big ones being abused.

1.) Just because you have an expensive studio you know how to record.

First off, I've been to a few "pro" studios that cost upward of $250k in equiptment and nobody knew what the fuck they were really doing. In my expirience these tend to be the "I got proTools cause that's what everyone else did" type operations.

1b.) Just because you can spout off about the gear you have and how big of a gear whore you are that you can record.

MONEY CANNOT BUY TALENT!!!!!! End of debate.

2.) You need music theory to be a good musician.

This is pure bullshit... pure. Not that it doesn't help but there is absolutely no substitute for talent. I've heard many a theory expert suck ass at writing interesting songs. I think there's a tendancy to put way more advanced theory into your music when you know it. but that can end up sounding like overthought out ass. plus, and this is the most important... songwriting cannot be faked by adding difficult to play stuff, it shows.

3.)You need a million dollars worth of equiptment to get a competent recording.

Unless for some reason you have a major label deal what the hell are you worring about sound like you do for? I'm all for sounding the best you can but you can't compete with million dollar budgets. Learn how to work what you have before you buy ANYTHING. don't just buy equiptment to have it. Plus comparing this work to finished proffesionally mastered work is really apples and oranges.

While some here, including myself, have a proffesional intrest in recording not everyone does. Go easy on the ones that don't and quit trying to suck them into the gear whoring ways of pro audio. If you're just making a demo you don't need a big setup. Back in the day we used to one track everything into the motherboard line in from a rip-off 57. It didn't sound great but it got the point across and with a little playing around you could tweak the sound enough to get it the best you could. This teaches how to place mics where you can get the best sounds etc.

Most of us have more audio processing power than ANYONE IN THE WORLD did 50 years ago. Don't be fooled into thinking you can't make a purposfull recording with next to nothing.

 

[fraserhutch]

My point is, simply posting your work doesn't excuse your bedside manner. You are just inviting people to put you in your place with a cocky attitude. His only point to replying to my Behringer post was to be a wise ass. Now, I'd be happy to post a song or two, certainly not to boast but rather to show people what can be achieved with modest and yes, some out and out cheap gear as well, when you trust your own ears.

Yeah, sure, right, whatever.

 

[fraserhutch]

2.) You need music theory to be a good musician.

This is pure bullshit... pure. Not that it doesn't help but there is absolutely no substitute for talent. I've heard many a theory expert suck ass at writing interesting songs. I think there's a tendancy to put way more advanced theory into your music when you know it. but that can end up sounding like overthought out ass. plus, and this is the most important... songwriting cannot be faked by adding difficult to play stuff, it shows.

THIS is such utter bullshit.

No one here ever argued that everyone who understands music theory is en excellent musician. A -> B does not imply B-> A. However, every excellent music has more than a passing knowledge of music theory, even if it is not truly formalized.

And, the argument that " I think there's a tendancy to put way more advanced theory into your music when you know it" is just laugable.

It may be that people who are learning theory have a tendency to push their boundaries, thus losing you in the process. When one learns things, one experiements with them, and one grows. The fact that you cannot understand it is more a reflection on you than on the author. However, anyone who argues that having more tools in your toolbox is a bad thing is an idiot in my opinion.

In my opinion, it takes talent AND hard work to be an excellent musician. ANd part of that hard work is learning music theory to some degree.

And the comment "songwriting cannot be faked by adding difficult to play stuff, it shows" is so laughable I'm not even going to comment on it.

 

[mrT]

No one here ever argued that everyone who understands music theory is en excellent musician. A -> B does not imply B-> A. However, every excellent music has more than a passing knowledge of music theory, even if it is not truly formalized.


And the comment "songwriting cannot be faked by adding difficult to play stuff, it shows" is so laughable I'm not even going to comment on it.

Cram your head full of music theory if that's what you want... but it doesn't mean you can write a good song. Everyone knows the guy at the guitar shop who can play every Zeppelin/beatles/VH/Hendrix/whatever song but is working at a guitar shop because he's a shitty songwriter. Yes you need music theory in a broad sense but no you do not NEED to know exactly what the chord you are playing is called as long as you know what to do to get the sound you want. A good example is "Everlong" by the Foo Fighters. Dave Grohl has said that when he wrote it he had no idea what the chords were, just that they sounded right. Bust on the Foo Fighters all you want but he's had a hell of alot more success in this business than you. That was my point.

I'm also guessing that you're the type of dick that would assert with utmost certainty after reading one post that I wrote that you were so much supperior to me. Not to mention that I must be an idiot.

As far as the difficult to play stuff go's I stick by it. just because what you are playing is technically challenging as a musician doesn't mean it's good. I HATE virtouso guitar bullshit. Who cares if you can play umpteen notes in half a second it sounds like ass.

 

[mshilarious]

Yes you need music theory in a broad sense but no you do not NEED to know exactly what the chord you are playing is called as long as you know what to do to get the sound you want.

Aren't you in art school? How is photography different in that respect than music?

 

[eraos]

Yeah, sure, right, whatever.

I don't see anything unreasonable about the post you quoted by EDAN...

 

[whjr15]

Cram your head full of music theory if that's what you want... but it doesn't mean you can write a good song.

As far as the difficult to play stuff go's I stick by it. just because what you are playing is technically challenging as a musician doesn't mean it's good. I HATE virtouso guitar bullshit. Who cares if you can play umpteen notes in half a second it sounds like ass.

AMEN BROTHA!!!!!!!!!!!! couldnt have said it better myself.

 

[eraos]

As far as the difficult to play stuff go's I stick by it. just because what you are playing is technically challenging as a musician doesn't mean it's good.

That is very true. But there's nothing wrong with knowing some theory. It's just a matter of using it tastefully.